Rapist as hero?

Hey all:

I posted once a while back asking the guys about their "character" as a rapist.

Mostly they answered (delightfully of course) about the way they behave in a role play.

But I think what I'm getting at here is a bit different. This one is for the guys and the ladies:

Is the rapist ever the good guy in your story (role play, fantasy, etc.)?

I'm old enough to remember back in the day when rape was taken a little less seriously and even romanticized. . .and sometimes he actually was the good guy.

These good guy rapes could often be "justified" by the particular story. . .she was a vixen who "made" him do it. She needed to learn her place. He was doing it for the honor of his people/army etc. It had been so long since he'd had a woman that the need was overwhelming. . .

Yadda yadda yadda. . .you get my drift.

This stuff is, of course, reprehensible. . . but I guess I got imprinted and these ideas still turn me on.

In my fantasies the rapist (my rapist) is often quite admirable other than the fact that he is raping someone (usually me).

These rapists who seem like career criminals or mutant idiots or just . . .idiots. . .do very little for me. I like my rapists to be either ordinary guys going to the edge or strong, sexy, smart, powerful, admired guys who also happen to rape. I especially love it when rape is their REWARD for their heroism.

Do any of you guys ever see yourself this way?

What about the ladies?

-sms

[ego]

Originally Posted by so many secrets

Is the rapist ever the good guy in your story (role play, fantasy, etc.)?

Sure, i have raped the Amazons who tyrannized poor people countless times.....
Also i took revenge for the people who got lured from her stunning body and lost their kidney. I punished the witch who was menacing the people. Gave a lesson to female hooligans. And of course, i gave the police officer who was brided a good lesson.

Originally Posted by so many secrets

I'm old enough to remember back in the day when rape was taken a little less seriously and even romanticized.

I think i know what you are talking about. Nowadays we tend to put every case under the same "RAPE" label and react to the same way to all situations. Even rape has gradation.

Originally Posted by ego

I think i know what you are talking about. Nowadays we tend to put every case under the same "RAPE" label and react to the same way to all situations. Even rape has gradation.

Yes, yes, yes, ego. . .that is what I'm talking about. The individuals involved--and their culpability and attractiveness or terribleness -- can really vary and that's what intrigues me.

I like it when they are . . .human and not cardboard cut-outs (that's why I can't stand the victims who do nothing but scream and all seem exactly the same. . .)

Otherwise, you might as well just have machine rape or robot rape, which frankly does nothing for me. . .

[Louise]

Before I respond. Explain this gradiation. Which rape is more acceptable than another? Please dont think im getting hysterical on you. I want to understand your point of view fully...

[GOATBOY]

I get off on the wrongness of it. if what I was doing was 'righteous' then I would not enjoy it. I just love being the bad guy.

[gaggirl]

I can see your point babe

Ive fantasised about the "romantic" aspects of rape when all the serials and cartoons were about women being tied up on train tracks and being rescued. I loved reading the "bodice rippers" that I could sneak off mums bookshelf.

I certainly have in my mind how i would like to be raped, but lets face it most rapists are either crazy or morons or mentally or socially unhinged in some way and would I REALLY want to be at the mercy of someone like that? No. BUT theres this little tiny percent (in my mind) who just cant help themselves, a normal sane red blooded man, driven crazy by lust. and maybe the girl is playing hard to get and he loves her so much he has to SHOW her how much he wants her and after repeated attempts and few forced orgasms wins her over (eventually) or even wins her submission

In say a bank robbery and being taken hostage. One guy is there who is as bad as the rest of them but.. hell protect me form being raped by them for the duration of my captivity if I'm his bitch!


I hear you

[perfectlyformed]

I think this is the difference between being raped and being taken. If that makes any sense. Deep down most women want to be taken by a man. I challenge any woman not to get turned on to an attractive man pinning them to a wall with there wrists held behind or above them while he kisses her deeply, his free hand exploring her body.

But what was the keyword in that little scene? ATTRACTIVE!

Is the difference between romantic but forceful sex and rape just weather or not the "victim" finds her attacker attractive or not?

[RapeU]

Yeah, I am sort of doing that with my LK story.

I usually imagine a rapist as evil and dark because it makes it sound more exciting.

[ego]

@ PerFor As you said, attractive was the keyword in that scene. But its not in any scene.
Women who found me attractive have asked me to stop. It would be rape if i hadnt. And women who didnt find me really attractive made it up to the end with me (i guess they were desperately horny and i was the only option ).
I dont disagree with your statement, i just thing it describes a small percentage of the cases. And of course, it enforces my persuasion that not all cases are the same.

Originally Posted by Louise

Explain this gradiation. Which rape is more acceptable than another? Please dont think im getting hysterical on you. I want to understand your point of view fully...

Does this really need explanation? You consider all rapes ever happened as the same, as a single case?
Acceptable is not the word i would use. A rape could be considered acceptable by some cultures and under specific circumstances, but i dont think that this word describes my point of view.
Also, i tried hard but i think i finally understood what SMS meant when said that someone could even "romanticize" about rape. Yes, it could happen.

[Louise]

Do I think all rape is uniform, certainly not. Absolutely not. But rape remains rape, whatever. Getting confused between fantasy and reality here. Maybe I dont understand whats truly being said, so I'll leave it.

Originally Posted by Louise

Before I respond. Explain this gradiation. Which rape is more acceptable than another? Please dont think im getting hysterical on you. I want to understand your point of view fully...

Oh dear God, I am not ever saying it is acceptable!!!!!!!

I'm talking about the difference in -- for want of a better word -- literary terms between someone whose actions are depicted as a representation of their awful complete inherent evilness (which I find boring) and someone who is basically normal and or even admirable and their actions are depicted as a fluke or explainable/understandable within the context of a particular story and that story's particular universe.

Hope that is clearer.

--sms

[ego]

Originally Posted by Louise

But rape remains rape, whatever.

And what about the prison rape of a rapist by other prisoners?
Is it a cruel crime? A fair punishment? A social taboo?

Take a look here also. http://www.rapeboard.com/showthread.php?t=5881

[ego]

Originally Posted by so many secrets

I'm talking about the difference in -- for want of a better word -- literary terms between someone whose actions are depicted as a representation of their awful complete inherent evilness (which I find boring) and someone who is basically normal and or even admirable and their actions are depicted as a fluke or explainable/understandable within the context of a particular story and that story's particular universe.

For example, Zoro fucked the daughter of the Spanish governor? She was all wet and melting (and spread her legs), but her rank in society (which was calling him a bandit) obligate her to say no?
Technically a rape, but they got married some months after?

Hi SMS... I get what you're saying. Sounds like we're looking for a sympathetic character as rapist. An ordinary man who goes out and takes what he wants for a so-called "good" reason. Somehow, by committing the rape, itself, he is setting things back to right... perhaps, correcting some wrong that was done to him.

In these stories, the reader (viewer) would be rooting for the rapist committing the act, instead of hoping the hapless victim will be rescued or manages to flee.... just in time.

I can think of a few examples. A bitchy or overly dominating woman "gets" what she deserves ... a cock-tease is finally forced to put out ... a jewel thief caught stealing and is made to "pay" for what she has done. An over-bearing boss gets nailed late one night at the office. Maybe even the loan shark collecting on that unpaid debt that is owed to him.

There are also more honorable motives/situations. Something ritualistic, maybe? Fearful villiagers give a young virgin in sacrifice to... well, to someone, or some fierce dragon. Or, to the priests/vizier to assure bountiful crops next year. Any time when her sacrifice is of benefit to the community at large. To appease the gods. Or when an Indian maiden is ritualistically deflowered before her wedding day. Certain noblemen and kings have taken this right over the young women/virgins under their domain as though it's their responsibility to perform a service.

There are many times when we paint the victim as a bad girl who deserves being raped in order to justify or excuse the actions of the rapist. When this element of the story is successfully crafted, the audience does identify with him. When it isn't, we shake our heads in recognition of his faulty logic and enjoy his exploits in secret.. because this fulfills our private fantasies.

[Louise]

Originally Posted by so many secrets

Oh dear God, I am not ever saying it is acceptable!!!!!!!

I'm talking about the difference in -- for want of a better word -- literary terms between someone whose actions are depicted as a representation of their awful complete inherent evilness (which I find boring) and someone who is basically normal and or even admirable and their actions are depicted as a fluke or explainable/understandable within the context of a particular story and that story's particular universe.

Hope that is clearer.

--sms

Thank you, that is clear. Probably my fault, havent slept for more than a couple hours the past two days. lol.

[sillyjunior2000]

..like rape a girl in the neighbourhood for being bitchy and picking a quarrel with almost everyone for no reason.
I think I will be a hero in my neighbourhood if I did so

See, I'm not talking about it being the victim's "fault" although clearly some here enjoy that aspect of the fantasy. . .which is fine, in fantasy.

I guess I'm talking about the character of the people and the goodness/badness of the act being somewhat distinct. . .

And also about those situations where it is less black and white--IN FANTASY and literature (stories, films, etc.), not reality.

In reality, the law is the law, we have a social contract that compels us to behave in a civilized fashion, yadda yadda, we have to be responsible for consequences--I do really believe in all that.

I just find "bad guys" who lack motivation and are evil just for the sake of evil to be kinda . . .dull. I'm much more intrigued by the basically good guy who does something bad. . .again, I'm talking pop-culture depictions here. . .

And as for the victims. . .she can be NOT innocent and it still wouldn't make it her "fault."

That's why I love the rapes in Straw Dogs--so emotionally complex. Susan George in Straw Dogs is NOT innocent, but it is NOT her fault. And the old boyfriend (Charlie? can't remember his name) is likable or at least understandable for much of the movie but does this bad thing--that he knows is bad and actually apologizes for.

To me, for both the rapist and the victim, I find both absolute guilt and absolute innocence to be so lacking in erotic texture. . .

--sms

That's the key to this, sms...

I studied theatre for years and have been on stage hundreds of times. Playing the sweet, innocent, ingenue type role can be VERY boring. It's always more exciting to be cast in the role of the villian. Why? Because that lets us step outside our usual self into the shoes of somebody else who thinks things, says things, and does things we would never dare doing. Same thing for people watching a movie/stage play.. reading a book. We love getting into the mind of that bad person... if nothing else just to see how he or she ticks. It's a change from our ordinary and conventional lives... and when it's fantasy, it's fun. We get to go out and be bold, crass, selfish, and even cruel... without dealing with any repurcussions that common sense, our personal values, or religious beliefs tell us would result for real. What a hoot!

Originally Posted by so many secrets

I just find "bad guys" who lack motivation and are evil just for the sake of evil to be kinda . . .dull. I'm much more intrigued by the basically good guy who does something bad. . .

And that's where motivation comes into this. All those "bad guys" you see who lack motivation... those are examples of bad acting, bad writing, a bad screen play, or just bad character development. We never sympathize with a character like that because he's flat.. undeveloped. He's not a REAL person.

I've played a few roles that were very difficult for me to grasp at first. I'd look at what the character does.. or at something they say. And I'd think, holy hell.. I could never do that. I just didn't understand a person like that because it wasn't me. (Well, duh.... No kidding, that's the whole point of acting, right?)

What I was taught to do when analyzing a new character who is essentially evil is first approach the role from this point of view:

Most people don't do bad things because they want to be bad -- they (almost) always have "good reasons" for doing bad things. To play a villian, believably, you need to dig down into that character's frame of mind, motivations, fears, and experiences to find out how that person see the act being "good" ... or at least, worthwhile.

Even when they KNOW they are doing something wrong... they have a good reason for doing it anyway.

"It's so easy to be wicked without knowing it, isn't it?"
- Lucy Maud Montgomery

Originally Posted by zoroastro

Its looks like you roleplayed a lot. So i wanna ask how do you get your patner into roleplay? I am too timid and dont known how to ask without spoiling the relationship-

Sorry... I couldn't come up with a simple answer to that (in brief form).. and it's such a good question that I don't want to gloss anything over. So for this reply, I started a new thread, here.

http://www.rapeboard.com/showthread....9714#post79714