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Old 05-18-2017, 10:12 PM   #121
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One theory being floated is that the Libyans were MI6 informers. It explains the cover up better than a possible Irish connection. It would be a major scandal that a British police constable is shot dead on a London street by people on the payroll of MI6.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:43 PM   #122
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That doesn't negate the possibility of an Irish, or rather IRA, connection with Libya. These "comfort letters" were being dished out when Tony Blair was negotiating with both Sinn Fein and Ghaddafi. Some body had to be supplying the provis. Still, there is always the Boston underworld.

Blair is sordid enough he would find a way to profit from some thing involving the IRA, Ghaddafi, our secret services AND a bunch of Mick American hoodlums.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:12 AM   #123
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No one, including the Libyans or the IRA denies the connection. also your reference to the Boston mob is correct, they supplied arms to the IRA, which were readily accepted. And why not? there was no quid pro quo, the IRA had to do nothing in return other than say thank you. South Boston remains heavily Irish, with decidedly republican sentiments.

But none of this really gets me thinking of why the killers of PC Fletcher are being shielded because of some connection of her killers to the Libyan effort to ship weapons to the IRA. It doesn't wash. The issuing of "comfort letters" to IRA suspects and also to the Libyan seems more coincidental than anything.

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Old 05-19-2017, 04:40 AM   #124
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There's a big difference between knowing there was a connection, and the public knowing who/what that connection was. Especially if it turns out that connection has been virtually pardoned before trial and conviction, in fact their trial made impossible, by a former priminister already under a dark cloud.

You're not thinking hard enough.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:12 PM   #125
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I'm doing a lot of reading on this, as you said earlier, I'll keep an open mind.

Since the mention of the Boston mob connection came up, a couple of interesting facts. Their first method of smuggling arms to Ireland was in the caskets of deceased Irishmen who had died in the US but wished to be laid to rest in their home soil. Up to 7 assault rifles could be placed under the deceased, no one ever caught on. The IRA/Boston connection came to halt when the mob made an overly ambitious shipment of an entire boat load of weapons. The Irish navy intercepted it, resulting in a number of arrests. The IRA personnel who went to the US to act as liaisons were absolutely stunned by that high quality, military grade firearms were so readily available for sale in any sporting goods store. A bit like kids in a candy shop. One other myth, Whitey Bolger, the head of the Irish mob in Boston, went on the run in 1994 and eluded capture for twenty years despite being on the FBI's most wanted list. There was a persistent rumor that the IRA had him tucked away somewhere in Ireland in return for the arms. He was actually pretty much hiding in plain sight in southern California the whole time, where he was eventually arrested.

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Old 05-20-2017, 12:53 PM   #126
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The British Isles is obviously the most interesting place on Earth. Not just because I'm there either. As a republican, what would you think if EIRE decided that its best interest was to leave the European Union and form some sort of political, and/or economic union with the United Kingdom, after Brexit? After all, it is an accepted fact that Ireland only joined the EU to maintain an open border with the United Kingdom, its biggest trading partner (apart from possibly the Boston underworld).
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Old 05-20-2017, 06:04 PM   #127
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There is growing sentiment in the Republic for what's being called an Irexit. Primarily to avoid the introduction of a "hard" border but also because of lingering ill will that Brussels gave Ireland one up the ass during the Irish financial crisis. but there is no guarantee, still a substantial remain opinion.

But assuming the Republic were to leave the EU I could see the benefit of a free trade zone, and open borders between Ireland and the UK. Anything that lessens Irelands independence or suggested an even loose political union with Britain would likely ignite a firestorm of Irish nationalism. The wounds of Irish treatment pre 1921 are just a bit still too raw.

Irish Republicanism is a bit like the villains in American teen slasher films. You can shoot it, hang it, lock it up but it just won't die. Going back beyond the origins of the IRA in 1919, there were the Fenians of the 1800's and the United Irishmen of the 1700's.

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Old 05-21-2017, 01:44 AM   #128
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United Irishmen, that's hilarious! Completely ignoring the inconvenient truth about Irish unity for a moment....

Oh wait, I can't, because it will never go away, no matter how much Irish nationalists refuse to acknowledge it. Ireland was only ever united under British rule. It is a bit like the idiots up north hating Tories and insisting every one should vote Labour, even though more coal mines were closed by Labour governments, and greater economic damage was done under Labour governments, and well, socialism basically fucked every one that ever voted for it!

Moving on, is Jeremy Corbyn just an IRA sympathiser, or is there some thing more sinister going on there?
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:37 PM   #129
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You've mentioned numerous times that Ireland was only united under British rule, which is true. But it's not as though you won an election, Ireland was taken by brute force, and British rule was sustained at the point of a gun.

Are you really so naive that you think that the Irish would ever accept a union with the UK after Cromwell, the penal laws, the indifference of the crown while millions starved during the famine?
The United Irishmen was the name of an organization, not a claim to the state of mind of the Irish people. But it's worth remembering that when they launched the revolt of 1798 the bulk of the leadership were northern protestants
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:52 PM   #130
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You do realise that Ireland was first invaded by the Catholic Normans by invitation of an Irish king? Then the occupation was augmented by the instructions of a Roman Pope? The English aren't the villains in this piece. Henry VIII, great grandson of Glyndwyr was the first "English" King to declare Ireland part of England, and long before William of Orange, Ireland was subjugated by those questionably Catholic, but undeniably Scottish Stewarts.

And right up to this century, you've had the support of that Scottish Arch Papist, Tony Blair. Don't be moaning at me about how hard done by you've been by the British. Ireland IS British, they just talk a bit funny and insist on not being part of the United Kingdom.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:54 PM   #131
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Well, in part you've answered your own question on how a post EU Ireland might behave, political union with the UK is an impossibility. Low or no trade barriers is a real possibility. Once both Ireland and the UK are out from under Brussels, then they can agree to anything they like.

If you want to persist in calling the Irish British, that's up to you. I can say with certainty that's not how they consider themselves.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:29 AM   #132
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Corbyn and Blair are old news for republicans. Blair had an impact on ending the violence, Corbyn less so. He does seem to be rising in the polls though.

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Old 05-22-2017, 01:05 PM   #133
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a new controversy popped up over comments by DUPs Arlene Foster on Sinn Feins Michelle O'Neill's blonde hair.

Maybe the whole the whole thing could be settled once and for all by a steel cage ,no holds barred ,winner take all cat fight. O'Neill is younger and looks more fit, but Foster has that junk yard dog meanness about her. Too close to call, but might be entertaining.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:49 PM   #134
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Perhaps it would be more appropriate to refer to Irish as Britons, as collectively that is what natives of the British Isles are.

There is no denying Tony Blairs role in bringing about peace in Northern Ireland. Interesting quote in the press today, it is 20 years since the Provisional IRA exploded a bomb. Is Corbyns support then really relevant now? Still, Blair. OK, so he helped broker peace, but what was HIS price? A man like Tony Blair does not do a thing, unless there is some thing in it for him. That is why I am so suspicious of these letters of comfort, and what the Libyan involvement really was/is.

Apparently Sinn Fein, who returned four MPs at the last election, and are determined to fight Brexit tooth and nail, despite refusing to take their seats in the house of commons, are campaigning for a referendum on Irish unification. Of course, if they insist on ignoring the result of the last national referendum, we should let them have their silly little provincial one, and return the favour if they win it.
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:16 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuckingRotter View Post
Apparently Sinn Fein, who returned four MPs at the last election, and are determined to fight Brexit tooth and nail, despite refusing to take their seats in the house of commons, are campaigning for a referendum on Irish unification....
From what I've read, a vote on reunification is part of the Good Friday agreement. It's probably about time for it, about 20 years after the deal.
A condition for a vote is that the Northern Ireland Home Secretary has to see a perceived need or demand for a vote on reunification, and if the vote is a no (Ulster says NO! as usual ) then in a few years he looks at the situation again to decide if another vote is needed.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:58 AM   #136
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Right, so, what the Good Friday Agreement requires is two seperate referendums, on both sides of the border. These both have to result in a for vote, for unification to happen.

I wonder on what basis it is "about time" for a referendum? There doesn't seem to be any noises coming out of the Republic about a referendum. They are more occupied with Europe at present. There is certainly nothing more than post-Brexit whining coming from Sinn Fein.

Once we leave the EU, things may change, depending on how it works out in the short or long term. At present, a pro-Europe stance shouldn't be confused with a pro-Nationalist one.
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:07 AM   #137
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Obviously, I would like to see a reunification. But I think Sinn Fein's timing is wrong on this. If a referendum were held today a majority of nationalists in the north would vote for unification. But this majority is far from overwhelming. On the other side, the unionist vote will be very likely close to 100% against. Even unionists who voted to remain in the EU will never vote for a united Ireland, its in their DNA. As late the 1980's Ian Paisley denounced the pope at the European Parliament as the anti Christ. Think about that for a moment, he didn't denounce the IRA or Sinn Fein, but the pope! And it's not empty rhetoric, these people believe this stuff. (just for the record, I was raised Catholic, I stopped taking it seriously many years ago)

And then there is the Republic. The latest data I've seen was a three way even split between yes, no and undecided.

So while the Brexit vote has moved the needle slightly towards reunification, a referendum today could easily result in a no vote on both sides of the border. That would be a huge set back for Sinn Fein, the likely beneficiary being the SDLP.

The wiser course for Sinn Fein is to take the long view. Demographics is in their favor, the population of the north is very nearly at the tipping point, within a generation, two at the most there will be a firm nationalist majority.

A little discussed wild card is the immigrant community in the north. Primarily from eastern Europe, especially Poland, these people don't carry the historical baggage of either the loyalist or the republican.

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Old 05-24-2017, 02:01 PM   #138
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What is being brushed under the carpet at the moment is that many Eastern European migrants would probably qualify for British citizenship by the time we leave the European Union, under current rules. So it is going to boil down to a simple choice between having dual citizenship with the United Kingdom and their home country, or living in a country subject to all the EU laws. That is what a unification referendum would mean to those migrants in Northern Ireland.

Twenty, forty years down the line, Northern Ireland may be ordered along more political and less sectarian lines. The Republic, if it remains in the EU, could have been swallowed up by a Federal European state and not really exist any more, except as a regional parliament like Wallonia. I wonder how keen currently Nationalist communities would be on unification then? More like the Provis would be trying to bomb their way back in to Britain if they had any fucking sense!
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:40 PM   #139
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As the June election gets closer no major shake ups. Sinn Fein has a shot of taking Fermanagh/South Tyrone from the UUP to up their total to 5. Quite a few seats are foregone conclusions, 0 chance for a unionist in west Belfast, same for Sinn Fein in Antrim.

The interesting contests are between Sinn Fein and the SDLP and to a lesser extent DUP vs UUP. Personally, I've never had much use for the SDLP. They should drop the SD and own up to what they are, a pale green Irish extension of the British Labour party.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:49 PM   #140
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I wonder how long it will be before IS bring the ghost of the troubles back to Northern Ireland, and what effect that may have on the peace process, and on the UK and Ireland in general.
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