All german nazis?

[Louise]

Originally Posted by ego

I am going to disagree.
Not in that Hitler was a shit, but in that nothing good came.

I dont think any of us would say that NOTHING good came from WW2

Originally Posted by ego

America found a way to get involved to world affairs, something they havent done to that moment (good for US, bad for the rest)

The US were in fact already moving out into the big bad world. They had been forced to intervene in both the Americas and the Pacific. They had already begun their bashing of European colonial nations to free their territories. They had already acted against Japan to try and constrain them (and as SD mentioned, without Hitler the British Empire in combination with the US could have slapped Japan down without the need for Atomic weapons). The US was already getting involved.

Originally Posted by ego

Israel found a country (well, i am not sure this is good)

Britain had already agreed to establish a "territory" for the Jewish peoples who wished to move there (again, a US demand) in the Palestine protectorate

Originally Posted by ego

Greek poor people found jobs in ruined and rebuilding Germany.
Constructions took a huge plus after the war was over.

OK, I cannot speak of Greek people, but I know Europe would have undergone an economic rennasiance as it emerged from the horror of the Great Depression. It is not unreasonable to assume a Greece without occupation would have benefited from the growth that would have occured during the 40s and 50s

Originally Posted by ego

The hostility created between west and soviets drove them to spent a huge amount of recources (money if you prefer) on evolution.

I really cant understand this at all. Money was spent on war, the pursuit of aims to spread a doctrine and subversion. Greece herself, like Italy, felt the heavy hand of CIA backed intervention in there domestic politics...

Originally Posted by ego

In a world that not everyone could have access to important things, happend a deduction of demand.
A new, ballanced era raised.Countries could live in stability.

Balanced? How on earth do you see it as balanced. Ask Hungarians, Italians or the millions within ex colonies that suffered the disaster that was the sudden collapse of the support networks of the now bankrupted and ruined European nations

Originally Posted by ego

I know, it could have happen with less cruelty and ferocities.

Yes...1989/90 saw the revolutions in Europe which swept away Soviet/Communist dictation...very little blood was shed and yet it transformed both the economy and politics of Europe...

Originally Posted by ego

But in general, wars are necessary from time to time.Since always it was the only way for the world to keep going.Cos you know, there is not enough food to go round. It sounds bad, its worst if you have lost people, but its the bitter truth.

I have to tell you Ego...this shocks me. People in Europe were only starving, through lack of food BECAUSE of the war...not before. Wars are sometimes necessary...it is a sad fact of humanity, but this was a war that could and should have been avoided. For the benefit of the whole of humanity...not just Europeans or those who fought in the war.

[ego]

I will dissagree with Lou also.
How capitalism could find a way? It works today, cos its a deal between all of us:We have an x quantity, but we all consider we have 6x.If not now, we will have it later.Earlier development can only bring earlier satiation.
The disaster a war brings is temporary. The rebuild phace lasts much longer.
The fact Soviet was reinforced, is not bad.The world was desperate for a second pole.
Plus, the economic freedom capitalism grants is not necessary good.I mean, ok, a russian citizen could drive only Lada and eat meat with a ticket.But he was going to university with only measure his abilities (not his social class or the families money) and there was a free hospital for all.What i suppose to do the accumulated wealth, when half of the Americans dont have a social insurance?
And the retard in economic development was a gift for west world.Most of European countries are build by eastern workers
Technology development? Nothing gives the outstanding boost to technology a war gives.
Radar, jets, gps, telecommunications, atomic energy, web, all military developed. If war didnt exist, we were still in caves.

Lou, you disappointed me.....

[sindyloo]

Hey LUKE! Come here honey I think you need a big HUG and some KISSES!!

Dont let the actions of your ancestors bug you okay, as you werent there and you have nothing to be ashamed of! Every place has Nazis still. Hell we have them here in the Northwest but they are really racists bastards hiding behind Hitlers Ideas of a perfect race! Dont let peoples opinions get you down dear. As you and your family are so damn nice and you guys really represent Germany of Today!!


"Dont Let the SINS of the FATHERS be passed down to the CHILDREN!!"

[Sanitarium]

"War, father of all"
Heraklitus

[Louise]

Originally Posted by ego

I will dissagree with Lou also.
How capitalism could find a way? It works today, cos its a deal between all of us:We have an x quantity, but we all consider we have 6x.If not now, we will have it later.Earlier development can only bring earlier satiation.
The disaster a war brings is temporary. The rebuild phace lasts much longer.
The fact Soviet was reinforced, is not bad.The world was desperate for a second pole.
Plus, the economic freedom capitalism grants is not necessary good.I mean, ok, a russian citizen could drive only Lada and eat meat with a ticket.But he was going to university with only measure his abilities (not his social class or the families money) and there was a free hospital for all.What i suppose to do the accumulated wealth, when half of the Americans dont have a social insurance?
And the retard in economic development was a gift for west world.Most of European countries are build by eastern workers
Technology development? Nothing gives the outstanding boost to technology a war gives.
Radar, jets, gps, telecommunications, atomic energy, web, all military developed. If war didnt exist, we were still in caves.

Lou, you disappointed me.....

OK, so now youre defending Soviet Totalitarianism...whats the point of guaranteed university placement if you cant say or do what you want, only what you are permitted?!

Radar and Jets were invented many years before WW2. Atomic energy would have been developed, probably by a peaceful Germany actually or the UK without the war/
Its not war that produces progress, its human struggle...in all its forms...war one of them yes, but its the human spirit for improvement, driven by necessity sometimes, but by inspiration and desire more than anything else. Conflict occurs, yes, because we are essentially animals that got lucky.

I'm going to step out of this now, because quite frankly I fear we have perverted Lukes original thread. Please feel free to respond, I will not.

Ego...you dissappoint me. See...conflict...but we are able to discuss and progress our relationship without blowing the board up or threatening to kill one another!

[ego]

Originally Posted by Louise

I dont think any of us would say that NOTHING good came from WW2

I thought someone did.

Originally Posted by Louise

(and as SD mentioned, without Hitler the British Empire in combination with the US could have slapped Japan down without the need for Atomic weapons). The US was already getting involved.

Yes, US was.My opinion is, they should be delayed or keeped off.Instead, they were given a golden opportunity.Good? for them, bad for the rest.
Why was necessary Japs to be slapped down? The answer, is the same with the answer to why that war was not unnecessary
I know, history is written by winners, but fair is fair.

Originally Posted by Louise

Britain had already agreed to establish a "territory" for the Jewish peoples who wished to move there (again, a US demand) in the Palestine protectorate

U.K was involved to that shame of humanity also?
Well, i didnt know.

Originally Posted by Louise

It is not unreasonable to assume a Greece without occupation would have benefited from the growth that would have occured during the 40s and 50s

Greece is another story.You see, we always have to fight.If no obvious enemy around, we fight between us.....

Originally Posted by Louise

I really cant understand this at all. Money was spent on war, the pursuit of aims to spread a doctrine and subversion. Greece herself, like Italy, felt the heavy hand of CIA backed intervention in there domestic politics...

War = evolution. Hard but truth.
And it was England involved in Greece, not U.S. No big difference......


[QUOTE=Louise]Balanced? How on earth do you see it as balanced. Ask Hungarians, Italians or the millions within ex colonies that suffered the disaster that was the sudden collapse of the support networks of the now bankrupted and ruined European nations[QUOTE=Louise]

Originally Posted by Louise

I have to tell you Ego...this shocks me. People in Europe were only starving, through lack of food BECAUSE of the war...not before. Wars are sometimes necessary...it is a sad fact of humanity, but this was a war that could and should have been avoided. For the benefit of the whole of humanity...not just Europeans or those who fought in the war.

Yes, many people starved DURING the war.But 10 - 20 years after, things were much better than they would be.
Perhaps the war could be delayed.But not avoided.I think its better it happend that way.It could be really worst......

[somedude]

Ego my one reply is at least 45 million dead in Europe....

Beyond that Germany has great beer and great sausages...Oktobberfest Rules!!!!!!

[shysnale]

I think it is interesting to notice that when people talk about history horrors of the last century everybody think of Hitler and his 6 millions victims as the communists such as Mao or Stalline and others did kill more than 80 millions people.

sorry if someone told this before me in the thread but I'm too tired to read it all

[somedude]

Actually the Nazis killed 11 million people in the death camps and at least 45 million died total during the war! And yes the communists around the world killed at least 60 million people in the 20th century!!!

[Luke rape stalker]

whow a lot of answers!!

first i want say thank you how ever you thinking.
I´m not down because some reply, i know how we are and its enough for me. Of course we have still some nazis. What i want know is the sight of germany from the other countrys.
Hey Phantom, come to us!! we drink a beer or twenty and visit "tanz der vampire" the best musical ever.
Of course Jasmin come too! i have beer for you all
Louise you´ve right, i think the most countrys have a dark spot in their history.
Ahm... Sindyloo.. we german are NOT ALL RAPISTS!!! but thank you

[Andering REDDSON]

Originally Posted by Sanitarium

"War, father of all"
Heraklitus

“War…
War never changes…”
Chris AVALONE/Ron PERLMAN

[shysnale]

Maybe the reason why Hitler always got mentioned first when the last centuries genocides are spoken is because of the aesthetics of the third Reich. I could never agree with what they did but I have to say Hitler's army was magnificent. The SS uniform, the swastika, all that was looking really good. The swastika is a strange and fascinating symbol that sticks in people mind. Also Hitler was coming up with the very disturbing idea that you can give life by killing. He clearly stated in Mein Kampf that death may be a happy thing in some circumstances. That kind of marginal thinking may also explain why he always comes to mind before the communists.

I have notice some people here have such a good knowledge of the 20th century history so I would like to request an answer for that question :

In Mein Kampf, Hitler talks about the time he ended up living on his own in Vienna after his parents death. He said he started to observe the Jewish community and he could see beyond their behaviour the ''Twisted face of Marxism". That is really something I can't understand. The Jew always been blamed for finding ways to capitalize any kind of situations, which is radically different from the Marxist ideology. I've been asking this question to some people and the only answer I've got is 'Hitler basically hated the Jew, it's as simple as that'. I don't find that answer satisfying. Hitler was a monster, but an intelligent monster. Mein Kampf is full of very interesting reflections on life, and it is hard to believe he's been so simplistic in his analysis of the Jew.

So please help me understand what the ''Twisted face of Marxism" had to do back then.

Thanks a lot

[ego]

Originally Posted by shysnale

I don't find that answer satisfying. Hitler was a monster, but an intelligent monster. Mein Kampf is full of very interesting reflections on life, and it is hard to believe he's been so simplistic in his analysis of the Jew.

Intelligent, inshightful and with tendency to make the wrong decision.
Truth is, if he had became analist, it would be better for everyone.

Originally Posted by shysnale

what the ''Twisted face of Marxism" had to do back then.

I believe the situation in the world at early '30 was something like "more dogs than bones". Jew were another dog for the bone.He thought he could do it.
Now, who else wants his bone? Aaha, marxistes.
(marxism is a 'divine' system, cannot be applicated my most humans.It presuppose accumulation and re-distribution)
Ok, they want to share, but not with him.
For him, they are the same. Different roads, same destination.
I believe the time he took the decision to attack, he was feeling surrounded.

[Sternenlied]

I think maybe we should agree on a few things:

1) Noone on this board (if I'm not mistaken) actually saw WWII.

2) Everything we "know" we learned from books and people telling us what happened.

3) We all know everyone (especially people who experienced WWII or some other horrible thing) puts his own - highly subjective - view on things.

4) We all know books and people may not contain the "ultimate truth" (if such a things exists).

5) So we should all be fair and remember we cannot talk from personal experience, only about things we learned and think are true.

As far as I got him Luke wanted to know what people think about Germans today, not about WWII. So maybe we should concentrate on that point. And maybe commenting on Germans should add if they ever met Germans or if they have ever been to Germany.
Second thing I want to tell you is this: I've been to school in England and after that in Germany. And German schools focus on WWII and the Third Reich much, much more objective, detailed and differentiated. History class in England was much more subjective and "anti-German". So maybe we should all remember that no knowledge is absolute ...

[Rogue]

Peace sells, but who's buying

[Louise]

British army recruits secret weapon to bring peace

[Louise]

Russian counterattack!

[Louise]

American entry into the conflict

[Louise]

And the Chinese know their massed armies will sweep all before them...

Way to go Louise, It always comes down to something more important than patriotism and that is SEX SELLS!!!!