Religion is Evil

[Grm]

Trust you gal,
This is a very interesting argument, what is good?
How do we know? hmm, I think this relates to love.
Our mothers love us, without judgment, instinctivly protecting her offspring,
nurturing us to adult. Later we form relationships forged to create the next generation, without co-operation we cannot survive.
so we are good to those we love and those around us that are our extended family.

[gal4]

You are welcome, but then based on what you say, what is to separate religon from an expired philosophical system such as Mohism?

Mohism
Doctrines The doctrines of Mohism are to be found in the work Mo-tzu, named after the founder of the Moist tradition Mo Ti (c. 470-390 BCE). Although attributed to Mo Ti, the Mo-tzu was probably composed over a number of generations by Mo Ti's disciples. The Mo-tzu originally consisted of 71 chapters, but 16 of these have been lost.
It is in the Essays section of the Mo-tzu we that we find the key principles of Moism.
Universal love. In contrast to the Confucianists, who taught that devotion was particularly due to one's family, Moism prescribed equal love for all people.
Opposition to offensive war. Mo Ti opposed all forms of aggressive action, particularly in the form of large states attacking smaller ones. He did, however, accept that it was legitimate to use force to defend those who are being attacked.
Opposition to music. Mo Ti regarded music as a source of extravagance, associating it with dance, flamboyance and a waste of public resources which could be used to feed, shelter and protect people.
Opposition to elaborate funerals. Funerals were excessively expensive and the time of mourning excessively lengthy.
Divine retribution. Mo Ti believed that heaven is a personal force which knows of the misdeeds that people perform and punishes people for them. Such a belief serves to encourage people to conduct themselves morally.
Government. Unlike Confucius, Mo-tzu did not accept the tradition that emperors derive their mandate from heaven; instead the position of the emperor should be based solely on merit. While the emperor should be obeyed, people have the right to criticise the emperor if his actions are not in accord with the will of heaven.

History The school of Moism was founded by Mo Ti, who was born shortly after the death of Confucius. Mo Ti lived during the period of the warring states, which was characterised by chaos, confusion and conflict between the various feudal states. Mo Ti sought to address the problems of his period through creating a philosophy based on universal love and promoting attitudes and conduct that is most useful to people. Mo Ti lived out the principles of his philosophy. It is recorded that on one occasion he walked ten days and ten nights to prevent a larger state from attacking a smaller one.
The Moist movement was highly authoritarian. Mo Ti was treated by his followers as virtually infallible, and his successors were also accorded great obedience by their followers. During the fourth century BCE the movement was strong enough to rival Confucianism. That this was so is borne out by the fact that prominent Confucianist philosophers felt the need to attack Moist teaching. Mencius (371-289) denounced the doctrine of universal love as one that undermined children's relations with their parents and fit only for "beasts". Hsun-tzu attacked Mo Ti's opposition to music as indicative of a lack of refinement on the part of Mo Ti.
During the third century BCE the movement went into decline, all but disappearing by the time of the unification of China in 221 BCE. Little interest was paid to the Mo-tzu until the arrival of Christianity in China, when scholars explored the similarities between Moist and Christian teaching on universal love. Later, during the communist period Moism received some official sympathy because of its opposition to aristocratic privilege.

http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encycloped...na/mohism.html

[MarcEdeSade]

Originally Posted by persiangurl

omg, youre such a fucking idiot

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?

[gal4]

Originally Posted by MarcEdeSade

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?

My hero! leave a gash mark right here buddy, it is so much for fashionable.

fashion

Originally Posted by MarcEdeSade

You REALLY need a man to slap you around, doncha?

only if u wanna be slapped back right in the nuts dear

[Grm]

OMG , Gal and PG! Bloody hell man, if these wildcats team up I fear for your balls.
hiding under the covers
Grm

[somedude]

Originally Posted by gal4

You are welcome, but then based on what you say, what is to separate religon from an expired philosophical system such as Mohism?

Huh, I always thought Moeism was worship of the Three Stooges!

[Jennysnowbabe]

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up.

[gal4]

Originally Posted by somedude

Huh, I always thought Moeism was worship of the Three Stooges!

That's right, you numbskull!!!

[somedude]

Originally Posted by gal4

That's right, you numbskull!!!

That's a title of honor among Moeists!

[somedude]

Originally Posted by Jennysnowbabe

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up.

LMAO!!! Even though I know you were serious!!!

[gal4]

oH, REALLY???

THE STOOGES LYRICS

"Raw Power"

(burp)
Dance to the beet of the living dead
Lose sleep baby and stay away from bed
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
If you're alone and you got the shakes
So am I baby and I got what it takes
Raw power will surely come a running to you
Raw power got a healing hand
Raw power can destroy a man
Raw power is more than soul
Has got a son called rock and roll
Raw power honey just won't quit
Raw power I can feel it
Raw power baby can't be beat
Popping eyes and flashing feet
Everybody's always trying to tell me what to do
Don't you try
Don 't you try to tell me what to do
Look in the eye of the savage girl
Fall deep in love in the underworld
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
If you're alone and you got the fear
So am I baby let's move on out of here
Raw power is sure to come a running to you
Raw power got a magic touch
Raw power is much too much
Happiness is guaranteed
It was made for you and me
Raw power honey just won't quit
Raw power I can feel it
Raw power honey can't be beat
Get down and kiss my feet
Raw power's got no place to go
Raw power honey
It don't want to know
Raw power is a guaranteed o.d.
Raw power is laughing at you and me
And this is what I want to know
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Can you feel it
Raw power! raw power!
Raw power! raw power!
Can you feel it?

[Grm]

Originally Posted by Jennysnowbabe

This thread makes me never want to post on this site again. Omg, shut up.

What is your objection to this thread Jenny? Is it the subject? Or some of the satirical replies?

[shysnale]

Originally Posted by Grm

Religion is Evil
by
Josh Becker

I've just read the second article in two days about Mel Gibson's upcoming, self-financed film about the death of Jesus, "The Passion," and the controversy it's already causing before almost anyone has seen it. I just want to add in my two-cents' worth before I've seen it, either.
In point of fact, I don't give a good Goddamn about Gibson's movie or Mel Gibson, for that matter. I think he's a third-rate director and a second-rate actor who's never had the ability to master his American accent, and sounds like he comes from America's 51st state -- the state of anemia.
As these articles keep pointing out, Mel is part of a religious sect called "Catholic Traditionalists," who didn't even have a church in Los Angeles, so Mel went and built one. These nuts only perform their services in Latin, and have broken from the Roman Catholic Church over the Vatican's 1965 accord wherein they finally exonerated the Jews for the death of Jesus. But Mel's not willing to go there. He and the other Traditionalists obviously still harbor a grudge that the Jews were culpable for the death of Jesus.
Perhaps if the Jews actually ran Israel at the time of Jesus' death they would have been responsible, but of course they didn't. The Romans ran Israel and most of the world at that time and it was their rules everyone was following. Which isn't to say that the Jews themselves might not have executed Jesus for being a rabble-rouser, but they certainly wouldn't have crucified him -- that's a Roman tradition, and the Romans were rather traditionalists in their own way.
You know what? Who gives a flying fuck? Hello! This was 2,000 years ago.
But all of this meaningless hoopla just brings up other issues for me. First of all, Jim Caviezel plays Jesus in "The Passion." One more time a gutless motherfucker has cast a gentile as a Jew. Doesn't this offend anyone else but me? Jesus was Jewish. He was born a Jew, raised a Jew, and died a Jew, and all in the land of the Jews, Israel. His parents were Jews, all of the apostles were Jews, everyone he knew was Jewish, and if he returned today he wouldn't go to church he'd go to synagogue. The fact that over a billion Christians get down on their knees and pray to a dead Jew has always amused and fascinated me from the time I was a little kid.
But I'm going to take this whole issue one big step farther. Religion, of any denomination, sect or ilk, is the basis of nearly all that's evil on our lovely planet. Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us. We're the chosen people, you're not. Our God is the real God, yours is false and profane. Although we must show love and compassion for other members of our own religion, those of any other can be killed, tortured, and maimed because they're infidels. Religion, at its very heart, means I'm right and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm wrong, but someone's always got to be wrong.
I say that religion is the pretext for evil on our planet. Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds.

The basis of all Judeo-Christian religions, which includes Islam, is the old testament bible, which states very clearly "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Although I didn't know it at the time, nor is it even my title, the name of my first film is really much more appropriate: "Thou Shalt Not Kill . . . Except." As George Carlin so aptly put it, except "if you believe in another invisible man than I do." In which case the root and basis of all these religions, the ten commandments, can be happily and easily be tossed out.
Evil does not run around in a red devil suit with horns. Evil runs around as fundamentalists of every kind, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. I'll leave out the Buddhists and the Quakers because I don't think they have ever bothered anybody. But they certainly aren't joining in with the rest of us, either. Religion is about separation, me and you, them and us, it has nothing to do with living with the rest of humanity in peace. Therefore, religion is the basis of evil.
Catholic priests have been seducing and raping young boys for over a hundred years, but are adamantly against homosexuality. Muslims say they believe in the ten commandments and that Abraham, Isaac, and Moses were all holy men, but all Muslims believe in the jihad and that anyone who is not a Muslim ought to be, and eventually will be, killed. Fundamentalist Christians, who also purport to believe in the ten commandments, really believe that when the apocalypse comes and Jesus returns, all the Jews will either have to convert to Christianity or will be killed, and that's perfectly okay. Of course, Jesus will be in the nearest synagogue praying to Yaweh while this mass murder is going on. And the Jews and Hindus all believe that they are the real chosen people and everyone is just screwed anyway.
This is all moronic, simple-minded, idiotic, pre-civilized, childish thinking. Any name that we knuckleheaded humans can give to this incredible animating power that we call God, be it Jehovah, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, or Zoroaster, are all ridiculous bullshit.
As Joseph Campbell, the great historian of mythology, so clearly pointed out, anyone that takes any of these old books of mythology literally has completely missed the point. The bibles old and new, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Zoroaster, and all the rest of the "holy" books are merely collections of mythology. They are metaphors and parables about how to live your life and how to face death. They are highly imperfect users manuals on how to get through this veil of tears we call life. If you actually believe that Jehovah is an old (white) man with a long beard who is watching each and every one of us over six billion humans and judging us, you're an imbecile. If you literally believe that Jesus is Jehovah's son, you've decided to turn off a big portion of your brain and not deal with reality. If you literally believe that if you kill an infidel that Allah will bless you with seventy-two virgins in the land of milk and honey, you've definitely got a screw loose. These are all myths. Period.
Yes, there probably were guys named Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha, but they were humans just like the rest of us. The fact that a lot of other desperate, unquestioning people gathered to them doesn't make them anything other than plain old humans.

Religion is all based on weakness and laziness. It's the throwing in of the towel on the mysteries of life. It's saying, I can't make head or tail out of any of this shit, so I'll just go with what everyone is doing. If they're all getting down on their knees, eating a cookie and believing it's the body of Christ, then I will too. If they're all wrapping themselves in leather thongs, covering their heads with beanies, and rocking back and forth, that's what I'll do. If everybody else is bowing to Mecca six times a day, I guess that's what I must do, too. This is the behavior of lemmings following other lemmings off the edge of the cliff. There is absolutely no difference between praying to Jesus, praying to Jehovah, bowing to Mecca, or lighting incense to Krishna, than there is sieg heiling to Hitler, blindly following Pol Pot into the killing fields, or chopping up Tutsis with machetes. It's all called thoughtless behavior.
It's part of our job as humans to think about and consider our place here on the planet and our position amongst all these other people. The second you abnegate this responsibility, you've fallen into an evil trap. As the writer Harlan Ellison has said, "We're all the same person under different skins," and that's truly a holy thought. All the religions on Earth want to point out is that we are all different, and we of our religion are better than those other unholy blasphemers. That's evil. And that is what all religion at its core is all about. Us and them. We're holy, they're infidels.
A word religions seem to really like, particularly the Jews is "tradition," which is the handing down of beliefs or customs from one generation to the next. This is another form of acceptance without questioning. For several hundred years an American tradition was, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." A good old Australian tradition was "the Abo-hunt," where they tracked down and shot the Aboriginal people for amusement. A good old European tradition was the pogrom, where, if your luck had turned sour, go kill some Jews. The Russians loved this tradition, but the French and Germans thought it was a pretty swell tradition, too. And it's always been a tradition of the Serbs to hate the Croats, the Hutus to hate the Tutsis, whites to hate blacks, Christians to hate Jews, Jews to hate the Palestinians, Hindus to hate the Muslims, and Muslims to hate everybody.
Well, let's just thank God for tradition, sing songs in its praise and dance the Hora.
Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others.

As long as we are individuals and no cheeps, we're always going on having understandings problems with the religious writings. If you take time to read the New Testament without thinking about the heavy history behind it, you will find a lot of parable showing up the 'interdependence' between the human being and the nature. That is the basis of any spiritual practice. Practicing the view of interdependence helps people forget about every 'ego based' kind of evil. (Selfishness, pride, jealousy, etc...). This IF properly done doesn't tend to push people in just ONE way of thinking and acting. As far as we're individuals, we can't apply in real life exactly what we read in a book. We all need a spiritual guide (Priest, Imam, etc..) to help us 'adapt' the religious teachings in order to work on our personal weaknesses instead of working on the most common weaknesses. The brain-dead people you describe in your post are the victims of a non personal communal teaching. Do you really think religion leads to passivity and weakness ? Look at the Shoaling Monks. Look at the Templar. Who are they ? They are basically armed monks. If you’re in a situation where the only way to defend the people you love is to kill, then killing is not a sin. That is not only for Christian’s but also in Buddhism, Islam, and Hindu. The real religious goal is merely to cope with the complexity of day to day problems. The thing is that people experiencing great pain need desperately to believe in something simple and straight. Simplicity helps to clarify the mind and to reassure those who are in great misery. They would 'grab' anything that gives them some kind of a 'reassuring structure'. History, facts, scandals, movies, all that tend to add some sort of a emotional & cultural varnish to religion. Religion is not about thinking of some historical incoherence (Abraham was there before Mohamed, etc..) We don’t care about showing up cultural paradox as long as spirituality is there. As well as Jesus created a new religion from his Jewish root, Buddha created a new spirituality from his Hindu root, etc...History, books, movies, and all kind of facts aren't important in understanding the basis of spirituality. Forget about all that, forget about the freaks, take the bible, and read the New Testament. As you know there are 'live' day to day face to face situations between Jesus and the Jerusalem people, without any history to interpret besides. Remember Jesus was just a walking guy whose acts were related later by the Saints. It is human nature to gossip on things and to add artificial stuff on them. If you have such a mental block about the Christians, have a look on Buddhism. I personally am a Buddhist since 2001 and have notices a lot of changes in my life. The funny thing is that I used to share the same anger you have for religion. I am not saying I am a saint, (otherwise I wouldn’t be hanging here), I don’t care if there’s a god watching me everyday, I don’t care if there’s Heaven and Hell, I just care about living a better life right now and become a better person in day to day life, right here right now in the year 2006. That is the only thing religion should push you toward. Don't stay in your position. Give yourself another chance to change your mind about it. If the Bible seems too straight to you at this point of your thinking, try Buddhism with that book : 'The Heart Of The Buddha's Teaching' by Thich Nath Hanh. (6$ - http://cgi.ebay.com/The-Heart-of-the...QQcmdZViewItem) It is a "modern" way of explaining religion and spiritual practice. No heavy history there, no ‘one way’ thinking, and no Mel Gibson.

[gal4]

I have already commented on this thread enough, but will add one more.
During the days following my rape by my sister, the Bible was like a light house for me.
...and I don't give a damn, if Karl Marx did say religeon is the opiate of the Masses. He is dead, and his system is moribund.
Speaking of philosophical system which have attempted to replace religeon, look at Rousseau's "Republic of Virtue", and yeah, the Reign of Terror which followed.
Look at Nietzsche's UberMensch, and Hitler's Germany, and finally look at Marx, and the Russian terror of collectivization.
If you would really read, read Edmund Burke's "Reflection on the Revolution in France", which really exposes the so called "glorious" revolution as a sham.

[shysnale]

Originally Posted by gal4

I have already commented on this thread enough, but will add one more.
During the days following my rape by my sister, the Bible was like a light house for me.
...and I don't give a damn, if Karl Marx did say religeon is the opiate of the Masses. He is dead, and his system is moribund.
Speaking of philosophical system which have attempted to replace religeon, look at Rousseau's "Republic of Virtue", and yeah, the Reign of Terror which followed.
Look at Nietzsche's UberMensch, and Hitler's Germany, and finally look at Marx, and the Russian terror of collectivization.
If you would really read, read Edmund Burke's "Reflection on the Revolution in France", which really exposes the so called "glorious" revolution as a sham.

I am not sure I see your point here. I was not trying to say the philosophical system which tends to replace religion is what we have to follow. I am saying philosophy is already here in religion (Christianism, Buddhism, Islam) but seems not to be understood by those who need religion to reach a social status, to make money or to find an extreme way of thinking in order to peace up their mind in a easy 'one way of thinking'. Any Jesus's parable leads to a philosophic question if you read it with attention.
Of course the meeting of religion and politic is not always a success. Like I said above the understanding problem can push fanatics to convince themself they can establish fascism or communism for the love of god. But instead of talking about the worst parts of history, why don't you take a look at France for instance. We are still a catholic country and not experiencing any problems with that. We are the country were the social security and the social protection is the most developped. I don't see your point in talking about the french revolution which wasn't a religious problem but a political problem. Monarchy tend to let people living in utter misery. Louis XVI didn't intend anything to get closer to people or just to listen to them. They finally decided to make a revolution in order to insure the same rights for everybody. It was a call for justice and freedom but nothing religious. If you read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you will find that most of his arguments are based on what a fascist political system can bring to a country economicly speaking and not about getting in line with the bible. Hitler was a catholic who had a deep respect for god, but he also was a man who grew up in misery, developing anger and hate for those who putted his country down in the first war. France did put Germany through misery in an awfull way with the 'Versailles Traite'. Everything was there to lead people to fascism. The country was experiencing a severe misery and at the same time a huge immigration. The consequences, the facts, the economic situation led people to fascism, not religion.

[gal4]

The consequences, the facts, the economic situation led people to fascism, not religion.

Thank you for saying that.

[Spaulding4Prez]

Hmm. Josh Becker. Well, I love horror movies, and he worked on Evil Dead which is one of the best movies ever, but he is a bit off the mark here. He poses the question "Who gives a flying fuck" about Jesus dying 2,000 years ago. Well, it is one of the defining moments in human history. No single person has had that big of an impact since. So whether you believe in the man or not, his death is a signifying event in history.

Poor Mr. Becker says "The fact that over a billion Christians get down on their knees and pray to a dead Jew has always amused and fascinated me from the time I was a little kid." Maybe he didn't read the part where Jesus comes back from the dead?

But I will agree with him that religion is evil. Christianity is often confused as a religion rather than what it should be, which is a relationship with God, and the forgiveness of sins by the blood of Jesus, and grace through the Holy Spirit. How many of us are slaves to sin? How many of us are so bitter and hate filled? Truly accepting Jesus is a way to get through that.

[gal4]

Hey, I am a slave. I love being a slave. Slave to my passion for abuse, for pain, for torture. Once during a session, I was beaten so bad, I was left bleeding and barely breathing. A school acquaintance found me and called for an ambulance, and I was hospital bound for five days.
What does this got to with religeon? Nothing except for that fact that I was on the path to self destruction.

Here I was, laying in bed in the hospital, bored to death, tired of watching mindless television, and finally, I got so bored, I did the unthinkable, I picked up the Bible and I had another addiction. Mindless me.

Whatever the consequnces may be, I took a detour from the path of self immolation. And the result of that to my life at least, could be beneficial or detrimental.

So, is religeon evil? It is said that "By their fruits, ye shall know them".
You can only judge an action, or an object by the effects it has on its environment. But here, I am biased, it had a beneficial effect on me.
But, also I read, the effects it has had on other perople.
Most notably this,

Albigensian Crusade

In a way, I will say this, organized religion is truly evil.
Whereas personal religion, such as in my case is not.

And besides, if you don't like it, and sentence me to death for my beliefs, I will go to my death, rather than recant. Further, why not, death would be the ultimate in torture for me. After all I am an intnese masochsist.

Haha.

[cindyq11]

Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv ?
Dialing for dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv ?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?
Im counting on you, lord, please dont let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town ?

Everybody!
Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz ?

Thats it!

---Janis Joplin.