Burning the Quaron

[sindyloo]

The Marshall has a point dont worry about silly people and their religions! Just go with what you like what ever that is??

Religion is good if taken in Moderation... But dont take it seriously!


So?? Anyone want to dress up and wait with me for the next UFO coming to pick us all up? It is right behind the next "Comet"

[jwham]

Religion is anything that you worship or have an obsession with, it is something that takes priority in your life above anything else, and most people have a religion / obsession, for some it is their God, for others their job, I have heard it said, that in Texas football is not a game but a religion.

so whiter it be God, your job, sports, drugs etc, most of us have our poisons that we cling to, for me it would be strong whisky, cold beer and hot women. But it is my opinion that anything a person takes to extremes can be harmful to themselves and those around them, it is best to keep a balance on anything in our lives.

[BTN]

Case in point....
extremismpiecharts.jpg

In other words, no matter what group you are in.Theres some dick giving you a bad name

[HRH1948]

Just a few careless thoughts after a celebration that included far too much Gentleman Jack.

Has anyone been concerned with how many Bibles or for that matter, Moslem texts were burned at the World Trade Center on 9-11?


The taking of a human life is a most serious event. It can haunt you to the end of your days. Why do we so casually excuse the taking of thousands of lives with the utmost malace, simply because our religion didn't closely resemble that of the perpetrators? Can someone expailn the difference of Nazi Germany and the Moslem thought pattern? I submit that there is no difference. Genocide is still genocide and nothing makes that correct or moral.

Bullshit, the intolerance of any relgion to another must be denounced and quilled each and every time it rears its most ugly head. Exactly what is the difference?

For some perverse reason, the Moslems are getting a free ride regarding abject and most bigoted predjudice.

Hey, I have a live cobra in my bedroom and I'm going to sleep well tonight!

[snarkopo]

Religion is anything that you worship or have an obsession with

I don't believe that's a correct definition. More about following a written doctrine. And doing what "they" tell you to.

For some perverse reason, the Moslems are getting a free ride regarding abject and most bigoted predjudice.

Not sure I understand this.

But I still believe religion sucks. Ask the Mayans, the Incas, anyone persecuted by the inquisition, Gallileao.. the list goes on and on. Yay religion!

[jwham]

Originally Posted by snarkopo

I don't believe that's a correct definition. More about following a written doctrine. And doing what "they" tell you to

I think you missed the point, when a person is obsessed with something, whiter it be their religion, job, sports, drugs, etc, it preoccupies and dominates their feelings, desires and actions to the extreme, so in a sence their obsession becomes their religion, for they hold it more important than anything else.

Originally Posted by snarkopo

But I still believe religion sucks. Ask the Mayans, the Incas, anyone persecuted by the inquisition, Gallileao.. the list goes on and on. Yay religion!

There are just as many none religious based atrocities carried out down through history as there are religious based atrocities, and they both have one thing in common, hate ... On May 26, 1830, president Andrew Jackson of the United States signed the Indian Removal Act which resulted in the Trail of Tears. ... The Nazi German government's persecutions and expulsions of Jews in Germany, Austria and other Nazi-controlled areas prior to the initiation of mass genocide. Estimated number of those who died in the process is nearly 6 million Jews ... During World War II, in Kosovo & Metohija, approximately 10,000 Serbs lost their lives, and about 80 to 100,000 or more were ethnically cleansed. After WWII new communist authorities banned to Serbian and Montenegrin, who had been expelled during the war, from returning to their abandoned estates, and the list goes on and on.

[pervipete]

Its quite simple, even a Texan should be able to understand it.

All Nazis hate Jews, not all Moslems hate Christian, Jews or whatever religion, race or group you want to accuse them of hating.

Isn't all the they do this there so we can do this here arguments just a little, immature...

[snarkopo]

Originally Posted by jwham

I think you missed the point, when a person is obsessed with something, whiter it be their religion, job, sports, drugs, etc, it preoccupies and dominates their feelings, desires and actions to the extreme, so in a sence their obsession becomes their religion, for they hold it more important than anything else.

I know what you mean when people say someone is "religious" about something. But it is still very different from actual religion. Sports don't tell people what to believe or what to do, how to act or think, what is true or false (according to doctrine) Neither do drugs. Jobs... well ya got me there, almost.

There are just as many none religious based atrocities carried out down through history as there are religious based atrocities, and they both have one thing in common, hate ... On May 26, 1830, president Andrew Jackson of the United States signed the Indian Removal Act which resulted in the Trail of Tears. ... The Nazi German government's persecutions and expulsions of Jews in Germany, Austria and other Nazi-controlled areas prior to the initiation of mass genocide. Estimated number of those who died in the process is nearly 6 million Jews ... During World War II, in Kosovo & Metohija, approximately 10,000 Serbs lost their lives, and about 80 to 100,000 or more were ethnically cleansed. After WWII new communist authorities banned to Serbian and Montenegrin, who had been expelled during the war, from returning to their abandoned estates, and the list goes on and on.

Well you named 2. That's hardly proof of "just as many". And how do you know a belief that Indians were GODLESS savages didn't have a hand in his (Jackson's) thinking?
But it would be impossible for us to count all the "bad" things done on account of religion versus just people being.... people.

From what I know of history, and it's thin I admit, people didn't fight over or kill others or really judge others based on what god or gods they believed in until christianity came along. That was the first time people had a notion about being right, and rightious and knowing the "one true god". And being able to judge others as heathens, etc....

Anyway I'de like respectfully to lay this argument to rest. I have my beliefs and I know they aren't popular with anyone who does have a belief in god or religion.
I said what I felt but beyond that it's an endless debate.

[pervipete]

I think it is easy to focus on the more negative aspects of religion, let’s honest stories of scandal and pain make a bigger impact on the mind and media then ones of help, kindness or love. And it has been an overwhelming characteristic of mankind to accentuate the negative in life in a vain attempt to make ourselves feel better. And what sells more copies, headlines of death, sex and disaster or ones of hope, love and happiness?

And to be even more fair, religious people and organisations do themselves no favours at times. What with the child-abuse scandals and it is not just the Catholics church that has had perverts in their ranks, homophobia, and misogyny, again, not just a Christian or Islamic trait. And it is not just religions that have covered up perverts and abuse within its organisations. How many times have we heard about sexual abuse at a council run care home that had been covered up by the authorities? The only difference is that in this increasingly secular society it has become almost fashionable to bash religion, all and any religion. Mono-deity, poly-deity all of them.

Wars, murder and torture, yes all have that in their pasts. Whether the crusades, Al-Queda, Zionism or sacrifices by the Aztecs. It has been argued that even the Nazis tried to create a new religion to justify themselves. It is also true that a lot of religion is politics and power, but that should not blind you to a lot of the good done at the local level.

Kindness, support, help for those in need. All this is also available for those at the bottom rungs of society. How many soup kitchens and shelters are run by church organisations? The Salvation Army here in the UK being a good example. How many charity drives have been organised by little churches in little communities?

And what about the members themselves what do they get out of religion. Answers, hope of something better, greater then themselves, a feeling of someone, something, looking after you, giving you not what you want, but what you need.

Now, some religious people see it as their duty to persuade you that they are right, that theirs is the one true way, the one true God and religion. Me? I would love everyone to have God in their life, but I would rather you find your way there by your own path, for that will mean you have truly found the way. But if you don’t, if even at the end, you still don’t believe, then that is fine as long as you have been a decent, largely respectful person.

[jwham]

Originally Posted by pervipete

Post #33

Very well said.

[pervipete]

Thank you jwhan

[snarkopo]

Originally Posted by pervipete

I think it is easy to focus on the more negative aspects of religion, let’s honest stories of scandal and pain make a bigger impact on the mind and media then ones of help, kindness or love. And it has been an overwhelming characteristic of mankind to accentuate the negative in life in a vain attempt to make ourselves feel better. And what sells more copies, headlines of death, sex and disaster or ones of hope, love and happiness?

And to be even more fair, religious people and organisations do themselves no favours at times. What with the child-abuse scandals and it is not just the Catholics church that has had perverts in their ranks, homophobia, and misogyny, again, not just a Christian or Islamic trait. And it is not just religions that have covered up perverts and abuse within its organisations. How many times have we heard about sexual abuse at a council run care home that had been covered up by the authorities? The only difference is that in this increasingly secular society it has become almost fashionable to bash religion, all and any religion. Mono-deity, poly-deity all of them.

Wars, murder and torture, yes all have that in their pasts. Whether the crusades, Al-Queda, Zionism or sacrifices by the Aztecs. It has been argued that even the Nazis tried to create a new religion to justify themselves. It is also true that a lot of religion is politics and power, but that should not blind you to a lot of the good done at the local level.

Kindness, support, help for those in need. All this is also available for those at the bottom rungs of society. How many soup kitchens and shelters are run by church organisations? The Salvation Army here in the UK being a good example. How many charity drives have been organised by little churches in little communities?

And what about the members themselves what do they get out of religion. Answers, hope of something better, greater then themselves, a feeling of someone, something, looking after you, giving you not what you want, but what you need.

Now, some religious people see it as their duty to persuade you that they are right, that theirs is the one true way, the one true God and religion. Me? I would love everyone to have God in their life, but I would rather you find your way there by your own path, for that will mean you have truly found the way. But if you don’t, if even at the end, you still don’t believe, then that is fine as long as you have been a decent, largely respectful person.

You do a disservice to those you wish to praise, those who help in soup kitchens and shelters. Are you saying it's their belief in god, their religion that made them do it. That they would not have otherwise? They would have been callous and indifferent had they not had a master, er I mean pastor, to tell them they should help others?
I would take offense at that suggestion but maybe they would not. Being brainwashed and all.
I have spent time making meals at an organization in S.F. for people dying of aids. I did not need a religion to motivate me.
I have given time in a nearby state park helping visitors. Didn't need religion for that either.

And what about the members themselves what do they get out of religion. Answers, hope of something better, greater then themselves, a feeling of someone, something, looking after you, giving you not what you want, but what you need.

Answers, answers to what? True answers or made up answers. Fanciful ideas concocted to make the poor masses feel better about their plight? Maybe to you it doesn't matter. To me it does.
Hope of something better, greater than themselves? But what if it's not true? Again made up by people long ago? Ignorance is bliss?
A feeling of someone looking after you? But what good is it if it is not so?
But if all they want is to duck their heads in the sand and feel better, then yes, religion is good for them. But I would rather know the truth than be taught false hope.

Once upon a time there was no religion. So I guess then people had no empathy for each other. Actually I doubt that. I believe it is human nature or we never would have survived as a species. But the "oh look at all the good we do" is nothing new. I just don't think we need religion for this to happen. Doctors Without Borders, Peace Corps.... These aren't religious organizations that go out and help others. They do it because they just want to help others.

But if you need palliatives then religion is definitely your ticket. If believing you will live after death, regardless of whether it's true or not, that you are
loved by a god that's a complete asshole in the first testament, then somehow nicer in the second, even if it's pure poppycock, why by all means believe!
Plus you get to learn that the earth is indeed the center of the universe, that it's only 6000 years old.
Poor old Gallileo had a fun time with that.
Now old Darwin is under attack by religious nutjobs here in the U.S who actually want "Intelligent Design" taught in schools as a science.
It grieves me that we seem headed back to the dark ages and ignorance thanks to religion.

No new arguments there Pervi.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlPVSAnWOo for a far more eloquent argument than I could ever make.

[jwham]

Originally Posted by snarkopo

You do a disservice to those you wish to praise, those who help in soup kitchens and shelters. Are you saying it's their belief in god, their religion that made them do it. That they would not have otherwise? They would have been callous and indifferent had they not had a master, er I mean pastor, to tell them they should help others?
I would take offense at that suggestion but maybe they would not. Being brainwashed and all.

He did not say that at all, that is a classic twisting of another's words for the sole purpose of advancing your own belief, and it is he who should take offence. Sorry to be so blunt but the accusation calls for bluntness. I am no mean a bible beater, haven't graced a church door in 10 years or longer, but I have no faith in the ever changing science that continually disproves it's self.

Originally Posted by snarkopo;545757No new arguments there Pervi.

See [url

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxlPVSAnWOo[/url] for a far more eloquent argument than I could ever make.

Youtube? ..lol.. all righty then ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Uc6rpxEKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBkE6...eature=related

[snarkopo]

he said:

Kindness, support, help for those in need. All this is also available for those at the bottom rungs of society. How many soup kitchens and shelters are run by church organisations? The Salvation Army here in the UK being a good example. How many charity drives have been organised by little churches in little communities?

Now I guess technically I'm assuming he meant these shelters and kitchens are run by volunteers. And I assumed he meant christian organizations. Therefore, if I'm correct, he was trying to give credit to charitable christian organizations.

Do you get that?

So do you understand that it sounded like he was suggesting that these fine folk are doing what they do because of their religion?

Correct me if I'm wrong Pervi. Otherwise I have no idea what point you were trying to make.


Youtube .. lol? What the hell difference does it make where the link is? I believe it's a clip from the series "Cosmos".

Yes you can find BS vids on you tube as you showed, so what? I only wish I could express myself as eloquently as Carl Sagan.

I have no faith in the ever changing science that continually disproves it's self.

Then actually use your brain. At least science admits when it's wrong and moves on towards the truth. More than can be said for religion.

You have TV, internet, a cell phone, jet airplanes, medicine, pasturized milk, penecillin... the list goes on and on.
Yeah, why have any faith in science?

[batffink]

Originally Posted by HRH1948

Just a few careless thoughts after a celebration that included far too much Gentleman Jack.

Has anyone been concerned with how many Bibles or for that matter, Moslem texts were burned at the World Trade Center on 9-11?


The taking of a human life is a most serious event. It can haunt you to the end of your days. Why do we so casually excuse the taking of thousands of lives with the utmost malace, simply because our religion didn't closely resemble that of the perpetrators? Can someone expailn the difference of Nazi Germany and the Moslem thought pattern? I submit that there is no difference. Genocide is still genocide and nothing makes that correct or moral.

Bullshit, the intolerance of any relgion to another must be denounced and quilled each and every time it rears its most ugly head. Exactly what is the difference?

For some perverse reason, the Moslems are getting a free ride regarding abject and most bigoted predjudice.

Hey, I have a live cobra in my bedroom and I'm going to sleep well tonight!

Hey my Texan friend, that's not a live cobra, it's a Texan variant of the One-Eyed Trouser Snake!!!

On a more serious note, religion of any kind is only a manifestation of fear of the unknown. If one cannot endure the thought of nothing after death then religion is a great comfort. To believe that one goes to heaven, as in Christian belief, then death can be looked forward to without fear or apprehension.

The Muslim belief that a male martyr goes to heaven and is presented with a pre-ordained number of virgins must be overwhelmingly tempting. All that I can say is that they must be near to running out of virgins up there.

What do the female martyrs get?

[BTN]

Ah well here we go. Who is to say these 72 virgins are all girls? I've refered to this before and the suicide bombers of the world could well got to the afterlife and find themselves surounded by guys all wanting to tell them all about the new level 72 mage they have on World of Warcraft. Frankly I would rather go and hang out the the definite non-virgins at the lapdance club while I am very much alive.

[RapeKarenX]

BTN: "It always surprises me that every almost every religion universally teaches respect, tolerance and kindness to your fellow man...." Don't be surprised. Religion ideologically is about spirituality.


But here we are talking about religion as an excuse of hate, war, politics and power. Cowards twist religion.

[Lil-Mac]

Originally Posted by RapeKarenX

BTN: "It always surprises me that every almost every religion universally teaches respect, tolerance and kindness to your fellow man...." Don't be surprised. Religion ideologically is about spirituality.


But here we are talking about religion as an excuse of hate, war, politics and power. Cowards twist religion.

Quite true. There is nothing wrong with religion. There is nothing wrong with people that take their religion to heart for believe it or not, agree with it or not, those people DO make the world a better place.

There is something very wrong with people who take a religion, cherry pick a few quotes from it and then then distort them into something hateful and perverse.

[RapeKarenX]

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

There is something very wrong with people who take a religion, cherry pick a few quotes from it and then then distort them into something hateful and perverse.

Fucking Psychos

[BTN]

Its the whole "what I think God meant to say" thing. Either the bible is the word of god and is therefore not open to interpretation or not. Pick one.

I seriously considering the Norse phanteon as a more serious religion. At least the Vikings had cool dudes like Thor