CBS Reporter Sexually Assaulted by crowd in Egypt

[igor]

Search: Lara Logan Assault Details Censored In America
on youtube for a video describing the alleged events.

[harry_c]

I think you're allowed to have two responses to this story. Although it is shocking and depressing news, it also touches upon the 'famous woman is degraded' fantasy we see a lot of on this site.

While a thread here was somewhat inevitable, check out this article for a sample of some strangely peverse responses from mainstream commentators.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/t..._rape_reaction

[igor]

Originally Posted by harry_c

sample of some strangely peverse responses from mainstream commentators.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/t..._rape_reaction

"
After an overwhelmingly negative reaction to his tweets, Nir Rosen has resigned his post at N.Y.U.
"
*smirk*

I am surprised what some of the women journalists/writers have said. Good to see it isn't just men who are victim blaming. As I thought lots of angry females are no doubt ready to defend even a most extreme situation like this as victim blaming. . . I mean c'mon.

Naturally you could argue the "just world" theory/hypothesis comes into play as does victim blame and society's need for things to make sense. Without trying to really understand. In cases like this though it doesn't veer so much into victim blaming as other situations. . . ppl should be able to have an opinion when situations are as extreme as this, agitated male mob who have live in a country/culture that has no qualms about sexual assault. . . really now.

[Lil-Mac]

People are allowed to have an opinion. However if they arent willing to have their opinion challanged and if they arent willing to take the heat for voicing an extreme or unpopular opinion then they should keep their opinions to themselves.

Bottem line: A person has every right to have an opinion, a person has every right to voice that opinion, and the rest of us have every right to call them on it.

A friend of mine put it very simply. "If you dont want the world to know you're a bigot, or a racist, or just plain stupid then keep your mouth shut."

Good advice that.

[igor]

I would posit some of the opinions expressed by some of those ppl aren't stupid or bigoted, politically incorrect definitely.

For example how many women’s groups would voice anger were this assignment denied a journalist on the sole basis that she is female? You can’t have it both ways, seems like an opinion that's stands fine on it's own given the circumstances.

[Lil-Mac]

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree, because those people who say that she deserved what she got because of

A: the fact that she is female
or
B: the fact that she is attractive
or
C: what she was wearing or the color of her hair
or
D: the fact that she was doing her job

are showing both bigotry and stupidity.

[igor]

I would posit the victim blaming argument in this case is not "deserved" but rather "gross negligence" given the political and social environment.

Sometimes and often victim blaming definitely blurs that line, but generally that's not the impression I'm seeing in what ppl are saying about this event.

But you are free to argue with whoever holds the opinion you're debating.

[Lil-Mac]

Seems to me you are especially when you say they arent bigots or stupid, but rather being merely "politically incorrect".

You are correct about one thing, not everyone is taking that stand, but enough are that is very disturbing.

[Xanybar]

Anyone have a copy of the rumored assault video?

[StalkHer]

Originally Posted by Xanybar

Anyone have a copy of the rumored assault video?

1st - Since you are new welcome
2nd - This board is about fantasy. Real rape is not allowed
3rd - If you are looking for the rumored video go away. It won't be found here.

[igor]

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

Seems to me you are especially when you say they arent bigots or stupid, but rather being merely "politically incorrect".

You are correct about one thing, not everyone is taking that stand, but enough are that is very disturbing.

No more disturbing than when ppl express their opinion on any other event where victim blaming crops up.

Also to the first point, not really, if the argument is that a certain lack of wisdom was taken (ignoring the scio-politico climate exposing yourself to - iow gross negligence), I don't think that opinion is bigoted or stupid nor is it a "she deserved it" thought process. But I can see how many would come to that conclusion.

[firedawg]

I don't know why any woman would want to go to those backward countries. Like said earlier fantasy is one thing, but the way these countries treat women is shameful.

[Lil-Mac]

Originally Posted by igor

No more disturbing than when ppl express their opinion on any other event where victim blaming crops up.

The very fact that you dont seem to find victim blaming in general to be disturbing would indicate a lack of empathy and social conscience on your part. One of the problems with society today is that it has become very callous, your attitude reflects that perfectly.

Originally Posted by igor

Also to the first point, not really, if the argument is that a certain lack of wisdom was taken (ignoring the scio-politico climate exposing yourself to - iow gross negligence), I don't think that opinion is bigoted or stupid nor is it a "she deserved it" thought process. But I can see how many would come to that conclusion.

In defending bigotry you show yourself to be a bigot. You are simply trying to hide it behind posts filled with psyco-babble and red herrings.

What happened to this woman is indefensible. The men who did this to her are indefensible, as are those who somehow want to turn the blame for this onto Mrs. Logan herself. To take any position other than that is both bigoted and stupid. That is not opinion, that is fact.

[igor]

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

The very fact that you dont seem to find victim blaming in general to be disturbing would indicate a lack of empathy and social conscience on your part.

hmmmm again you are misrepresenting what I said. The amount of victim blaming in this case is no more disturbing than it being displayed in any other case. In fact I would say it's expected. You honestly thought the amount of victim blaming in this case would be low? I quote:

"
You are correct about one thing, not everyone is taking that stand, but enough are that is very disturbing.
"

In defending bigotry you show yourself to be a bigot.

Again, what argument are you claiming I am making?

"
You are correct about one thing, not everyone is taking that stand. . .
"

Indeed I am, in fact I explicitly mentioned the opinion I am refering to earlier.

The men who did this to her are indefensible, as are those who somehow want to turn the blame for this onto Mrs. Logan herself. To take any position other than that is both bigoted and stupid. That is not opinion, that is fact.

I will say again, if the argument is that a certain lack of wisdom was taken (ignoring the scio-politico climate exposing yourself to - iow gross negligence) then I don't think that opinion is bigoted or stupid nor is it a "she deserved it" thought process you keep claiming it is.

Is it really "bigoted and stupid" to have opinion that the socio-political environment she was in was very high risk that it wasn't negligent to put yourself there? I would really like to understand where you are coming from.

[Lil-Mac]

The first part of your arguement is this. That since she was taking a risk she shouldnt have been there.

Astronauts take risks, should we cancel space flight. Police and firemen take risks, perhaps we should discontinue those as well. If a policeman is killed or wounded in the line of duty, do we blame him or the person that attacked him?

The second part of your arguement is that the social/political climate is to blame. Again this is absolute rubbish. A social environment didnt attack her, a political system didnt assualt her. A mob of violent men raped her, it's as simple as that.

Your arguements are without merit. Your position without compassion or empathy. You seek to either:

A. blame the victim
or
B. blame the environment

How about putting the blame where it belongs, with those that attacked her.

[igor]

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

The first part of your arguement is this. That since she was taking a risk she shouldnt have been there.

Well yeah. I think it was negligent being there, let alone a westerner since they were being targeted and all. I guess that makes me a bigot and stupid right?

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

Astronauts take risks, should we cancel space flight. Police and firemen take risks, perhaps we should discontinue those as well. If a policeman is killed or wounded in the line of duty, do we blame him or the person that attacked him?

Thanks for proving my point, we don't put blame on ppl for doing their jobs.

If someone takes more risks than common sense dictates they're negligent to themselves should something happen. Astronauts and police are not immune to negligence, and neither are reporters.

Let me ask you, was it wise being there? I commend reporters for their bravery, but I would say there are times they step into the negligent area and maybe shouldn't of been in the thick of things. . . wouldn't you agree?

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

The second part of your arguement is that the social/political climate is to blame. Again this is absolute rubbish. A social environment didnt attack her, a political system didnt assualt her. A mob of violent men raped her, it's as simple as that.

Culture and the political climate has alot to do with how ppl behave. I don't know why you think such an event was independent of the Arab culture and independent of current events.

Are you saying that the culture and political instability she was exposed to was not a factor?

You do know they were openly hostile to western reporters. You do know other women were assualted in that region too, i'm 100% sure that such attacks are related to the culture and political instability in that region. But I see you have your head in the sand and refuse to accept this continuing your strawman arguments.

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

Your arguements are without merit. Your position without compassion or empathy. You seek to either:

A. blame the victim
or
B. blame the environment

How about putting the blame where it belongs, with those that attacked her.

Sorry but there is genuine truth about knowing the risks and dangers of such an occupation in a hostile environment such as the one she was in. Definitely negligent to put yourself there.

It has nothing to do (in my mind) with "blaming her" like you keep claiming I am advocating whlst calling me a bigot and stupid multiple times. But keep going with your strawmen it is quite entertaining seeing the hole your digging yourself into for everyone to see.

[rapey]

Hi, newbie here, though i would add to the current thoughts,
Forgive my ranting! :P

1. No one deserves rape, there is no case where real rape is "morally"* right.
*Reason for the "morally" is because I believe there are cases where people can deserve to die (serial killers for example)


HOWEVER
2. There is a thin line between Brave and Stupid, just like Crazy and Genius

Like some people have mentioned, a white attractive woman in an anti white/in an anti foreigner country/ in a country where there is no common sense (cough cough r*l*g**n)/ where even their OWN females don't get treated as equals (and there are wearing full clothing).....not really smart don't u think?

In respond to people who disagree, would it be different if I left my car door open with the keys inside in Mexico?

Does this mean she was asking for it?
No

Was it her fault?
No, but she did show poor judgement going there (call it brave or stupid, but still poor judgement). Poor judgement (brave or stupid) is not the same as fault

Using the example of my car, if you stole it, it is YOUR fault, not MINE. I might have been stupid, but that STILL does not EXCUSE YOU for committing the fault

Does this mean it wasn't such a smart idea?
Yes, say what you want, but it's not a smart idea.
Just like American Revolution was a pretty dumb idea if you considered a bunch of colonies against the British Empire. They knew the risk, and they did what they thought was right.



Conclusion:

I will add that I find it sad people that still believe in faith (yes, I went there)
You would think that if there really was a god OR if they REALLY believed...
They would treat everyone with the same respect, gay, black, jew, asian, white, female, male, whatever.
Because God sees everything and there is a place full of fire for them....

But no....
In a protest for FREEDOM,
In a RELIGIOUS country, *cough cough the "force of good" cough cough*
A rape occurred in broad daylight (metaphoric)
I find it depressing how pathetic our species is, unable to keep stuff in our pants....

I find it sadder that no one seems to care...
Imagine if a Egyptian woman was raped in the US in broad daylight (again metaphoric). There would be an anti US outburst.

Rant mode: Ending in 5,4,3,2
This world is going to keep being screwed unless more people have common sense

Rant mode: Off

I have a lot more ranting, but it's more general than about this case. So I'll stop

[igor]

Originally Posted by rapey

Forgive my ranting! :P

1. No one deserves rape, there is no case where real rape is "morally"* right.
*Reason for the "morally" is because I believe there are cases where people can deserve to die (serial killers for example)

HOWEVER
2. There is a thin line between Brave and Stupid, just like Crazy and Genius

Like some people have mentioned, a white attractive woman in an anti white/in an anti foreigner country/ in a country where there is no common sense (cough cough r*l*g**n)/ where even their OWN females don't get treated as equals (and there are wearing full clothing).....not really smart don't u think?

Apparently we are bigoted and stupid and some ppl can't tell the difference between negligent, poor judgement and placing the "blame" on them.

[SugarT]

Whatever happened there it was bad. there is now much debate of what went on....some suggest CBS sat on the story and only released after other networks found out.....some say it was FAR worse than reported, she was assaulted for 3 hours not 20 mins. see below!


" However, another purported video that was described by a controversial YouTube video claims that a bearded man ripped the top off the reporter and began slapping her face and breasts. He then pinned her to the ground, and by this time she stopped resisting, apparently accepting the fact that she was overpowered. The bearded man then removed her pants and masturbated in front of her before raping her. He also reportedly clawed at her breasts with his hands. The YouTube video claims that at least six men raped her vaginally, and a number of men also raped her anally as well."

[Sierra]

Lara Logan was not the only reporter assaulted during that time - Anderson Cooper was punched in the head repeatedly. Many other reporters were roughed up during those weeks. Even with the sexual assault (supposedly not rape - the details are not clear) this story would have died down relatively quickly. What keeps it alive are endless discussions like this one, and jackasses like Nir Rosen who ignite firestorms with their verbal diarrhea.

Whether she was raped or groped or something in between, she was a woman doing a job in a region full of risk. There is a place for discussion of whether she should have been there in the first place, but this isn't it. She WAS there, assigned by her bosses to cover the story.

What happened was not her fault, nor her bosses'. It is not typical behavior for Islamic men (which has been suggested by bigots worldwide). In fact, most of the men who took part would have been appalled and disgusted if they read about it in the newspaper. However, as soon as the grim protesting became wild victory celebration, pent-up emotions combined with the contagious and intoxicating feeling of group dynamic and bad things happened.

What happened was something that could have - and does - happen any time "mob mentality" takes over. Similar things have happened at large rock concerts and sporting events in the country where you live. The fact that it happened in Egypt is almost irrelevant.

As for CBS sitting on it, most female reporters don't want this kind of thing known. It either makes them targets for further assault or it makes their bosses reluctant to assign them anything risky. These former war correspondents end up covering Justin Beiber concerts and local ribbon-cutting for the new Wal-Mart.


I do want to take a minute to mention the real bright spot in this sad and sordid tale. The group of Egyptian women who stepped in and saved Ms. Logan from the mob. Although I will never know their names or faces, they have my admiration and respect. For women in that society to stand up physically or otherwise to men takes guts on a level that I cannot imagine.