Random Political Sputum

[Dangerdevil]

I'm pretty disgusted that politicians can piss and moan about raising taxes for billionaires and cutting subsidies for multinational corporations, but feel it necessary that hourly wage earners shouldn't get overtime because that's bad for the economy.

I'm not sure if they're the ignorant assholes or if we are for voting them in.

[FuckingRotter]

You're the arseholes for voting. Definitely.

[Dangerdevil]

I thought as much.

[LIDM99810]

Julia gillard. The name says it all.

[FuckingRotter]

I'd fuck her though. I'd fuck her the fuck up.

[pervipete]

The 'theory' goes, that they employ another person to work part-time and then unemployment goes down..like all good theories its bullshit in reality, but hey what do I know, I'm just a wage earning pleb lol

[dickbiggers]

Originally Posted by pervipete

The 'theory' goes, that they employ another person to work part-time and then unemployment goes down..like all good theories its bullshit in reality, but hey what do I know, I'm just a wage earning pleb lol

Its not a terrible theory. I know in my job, I'd love to have one or two part timers to take the extra hours we alternate working. I mean, overtime is nice now and then and looks good on the payroll stub...but comes a point where I'm fuckin' dying man. Enough already. We're four people doing five and a half people's work. Bring in some PRNs if you don't want to hire another full timer or give us time and a half. How long can a person survive working 60 hours a week before they crash and burn or their performance suffers to the point that you're getting canned because you're a detriment to safety?

[pervipete]

Its a terrible theory cause what happens is that the number of hours to get benefits is greater than then hours offered, which are greater than the maximum number of hours to still get a wage top of from the government, but still way too low to actually live on lol

[dickbiggers]

Originally Posted by pervipete

Its a terrible theory cause what happens is that the number of hours to get benefits is greater than then hours offered, which are greater than the maximum number of hours to still get a wage top of from the government, but still way too low to actually live on lol

That only happens if everybody is part time. We already are full time, so we already qualify for benefits. I'm not advocating an entire crew of part timers, but very often part time workers are the most optimum way to bridge the gap between a 40 hour week and 50 hours of work. The part timers come to work knowing they are part time...nobody is misleading them. If they need full time work, then apply elsewhere. Either way, you can't maintain working 10-20 hours a week overtime without job performance and plant safety being compromised.

[pervipete]

The trouble is, not many places where I am are offering full time work, most are offering part time only

[FuckingRotter]

If full time employment is what you want, and its not available in the sector you work in, the solution is to retrain for something else, not blame whoever you think is responsible for your woes.

Yes, there are people in positions of power that are responsible for a lot of problems many of us are encountering, but the paths we choose to take is no ones responsibility but our own.

[pervipete]

OK, thats a good and typical FR, blame the victims.

Part of that is the great contradiction of politics, pressure people to spend years learning skills and acquiring knowledge, then "what we can't provide jobs for that? Well don't be choosy, not our fault you have wasted years and money, well we did tell people to train, train, train for a glorious future in <add career>, but we're politicians, you don't really expect us to actually do something about providing jobs eh? I'm alright Jack, you can go hang...whats that you say, election coming up...well off course I am going to make sue that all is done, but it was the last lots policies, I know I have been in power for a few years now, and I know I haven't really done anything, but its everyone's fault but mine"

I am talking about in general around where I am, and please don't go all Tebbit on me, its not so easy to move away on the off chance about getting a a job, especially when you have to take in account that with an aging population, combined with the expectation that you have to help look after them, people may not be in a position to move away. And as I say, they is no guarantee that the job market will be any better.

And FR, to certain degree you are right about responsibility, but, and this is a big but, I can't attract employers to my area, that is up to local government, same as keeping them here once the building is open...My responsibility is keeping the job once I am in...

And BTW, I have changed careers, spent years training in computers, couldn't get a job, so I now unload lorries for living, via a 7-11 and selling suits and luggage.

[dickbiggers]

It's a sad truth of modern times, Pete. The days of "graduate school, get a job at the plant, get married, raise a family, and retire with the gold watch and pension" are over. Most of us on this board will be working until we are 80 years old unless we get really, really lucky. I'm not sure exactly what you expect politicians to do. They can't grab some shirt maker off the street and legally compel him to make shirts in your town. They can offer him incentive, but otherwise it is not the job of politicians to create jobs. They can only regulate private employers to provide fair conditions and try to entice them not to send existing jobs to Bangladesh.

It's a Catch-22, especially here in the U.S. Every single person in this country cries and wails about political creation of jobs. But in the next breath, they rail on and on about government interference in free enterprise by conjuring Thomas Jefferson and advocating everything just shy of violent overthrow while "My Country 'Tis of Thee..." plays softly in the background. You cannot advocate a truly free hands-off economy and then demand that politicians force employers to hand you a job. The two concepts are irreconcilable.

[Dangerdevil]

I don't think anyone is asking employers to hand anybody a job. What is being asked for is that we stop giving subsidies to big corporations who don't need them and to pay living wage, overtime and benefits to their workforce. The thing that is the most aggravating issue out of this is that it is in their own economic interest to - in order for any economy to work it needs consumers and if people barely have enough money to scrape by with the essentials then they aren't going to be consuming anything. Everybody loses.

[Darksyde]

Originally Posted by Dangerdevil

I don't think anyone is asking employers to hand anybody a job. What is being asked for is that we stop giving subsidies to big corporations who don't need them and to pay living wage, overtime and benefits to their workforce. The thing that is the most aggravating issue out of this is that it is in their own economic interest to - in order for any economy to work it needs consumers and if people barely have enough money to scrape by with the essentials then they aren't going to be consuming anything. Everybody loses.

Careful there! You're making way too much sense!

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dickbiggers

That only happens if everybody is part time. We already are full time, so we already qualify for benefits. I'm not advocating an entire crew of part timers, but very often part time workers are the most optimum way to bridge the gap between a 40 hour week and 50 hours of work. The part timers come to work knowing they are part time...nobody is misleading them. If they need full time work, then apply elsewhere. Either way, you can't maintain working 10-20 hours a week overtime without job performance and plant safety being compromised.

That's great for you. You have the ability to make extra money, earn benefits, get paid vacations and generally enjoy the benefits of being paid a living wage.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and our major industries - tech, manufacturing and banking - were hit HARD. Employers who did have jobs available took advantage of the situation and people were hired as independent contractors or part-time workers without health insurance, unemployment benefits, paid time off, etc. They used and abused people, paid them well below what anyone could live on, and discarded anyone who complained.

Why did they do this? Simple reason. Because they could. They took desperate people and treated them like shit - and the workers had to swallow it because there wasn't anything else.

That kind of abuse of power makes me crazy.

[FuckingRotter]

Victims? Who are the victims?

Pete, no matter how much money government throws at you, employers aren't going to invest in you if you have the wrong skills. If you don't like your job, it is no ones fault but your own. Retrain, or get new computing skills and make yourself more employable. Free lance, take a risk. Or sit their on your backside and wait for someone else to do something for you. Just don't come wailing here about victims.

Believe it or not, whilst 2 1/2 million people in this country are sat on their arses doing just that, we have a skills shortage. In construction, in manufacturing, in all sectors of engineering, in medicine and related professions, we're already bleeding the country dry to import workers to meet those shortages, what's going to happen if things pick up?

Yet young people are still leaving school and university and can't get jobs, not because they are victims, but because they chose to get useless qualifications that no employer wants, instead of learning to do something useful.

I was made redundant nearly two years ago. Instead of sitting there being victimised, I went and did some training courses, made myself more employable. I'm self-employed now instead of being in a shitty dead end job. Apart from during the really shit weather at the start of this year, I haven't gone more than two days without work. That's in a region where construction is still stagnant.

I made myself more employable.

If your job sucks, tough. Instead of wasting money on a plane ticket to Septicland twice a year, study, get a qualification somebody wants. Get a decent job. Stop telling me you're a fucking victim!

Originally Posted by pervipete

OK, thats a good and typical FR, blame the victims.

Part of that is the great contradiction of politics, pressure people to spend years learning skills and acquiring knowledge, then "what we can't provide jobs for that? Well don't be choosy, not our fault you have wasted years and money, well we did tell people to train, train, train for a glorious future in <add career>, but we're politicians, you don't really expect us to actually do something about providing jobs eh? I'm alright Jack, you can go hang...whats that you say, election coming up...well off course I am going to make sue that all is done, but it was the last lots policies, I know I have been in power for a few years now, and I know I haven't really done anything, but its everyone's fault but mine"

I am talking about in general around where I am, and please don't go all Tebbit on me, its not so easy to move away on the off chance about getting a a job, especially when you have to take in account that with an aging population, combined with the expectation that you have to help look after them, people may not be in a position to move away. And as I say, they is no guarantee that the job market will be any better.

And FR, to certain degree you are right about responsibility, but, and this is a big but, I can't attract employers to my area, that is up to local government, same as keeping them here once the building is open...My responsibility is keeping the job once I am in...

And BTW, I have changed careers, spent years training in computers, couldn't get a job, so I now unload lorries for living, via a 7-11 and selling suits and luggage.

[dickbiggers]

Originally Posted by FuckingRotter

If your job sucks, tough. Instead of wasting money on a plane ticket to Septicland twice a year, study, get a qualification somebody wants.

You have to keep your ears to the ground within your industry also. Here's an example...we just received an e-mail that the new ICD-10 coding system is going to be implemented by mid 2014. That will immediately make skilled coders a premium skill. So if you work in the lab or pushing gurneys all day and you hate it, for $1500 you can take a six month course at night and be state certified by Christmastime to start off making $35,000 with a median rate of $45,000 within 2-3 years. Its not a million dollars, but 40 grand plus benefits for six months part-time training is a good investment, and they are out there if you know how to find them.

[dickbiggers]

Originally Posted by Sierra

That's great for you. You have the ability to make extra money, earn benefits, get paid vacations and generally enjoy the benefits of being paid a living wage.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and our major industries - tech, manufacturing and banking - were hit HARD. Employers who did have jobs available took advantage of the situation and people were hired as independent contractors or part-time workers without health insurance, unemployment benefits, paid time off, etc. They used and abused people, paid them well below what anyone could live on, and discarded anyone who complained.

Why did they do this? Simple reason. Because they could. They took desperate people and treated them like shit - and the workers had to swallow it because there wasn't anything else.

That kind of abuse of power makes me crazy.

I feel the pain, I do. I'm not a shill for The Man. I'm just confused at what people expect the government to do about it. A private employer is under no legal obligation to provide a full time schedule or medical coverage. There are regulations about how they can treat their employees, but there are no regulations regarding to what an employee is entitled.

Look...nobody wants to go back to the days when Rockefeller and Carnegie were shooting into crowds of strikers. But if the government starts mandating that every corporation of a certain size have X number of full time employees at X salary with X benefits, the effects would be detrimental eventually as most companies would not realize a profit margin to justify carrying a bloated payroll through difficult times. When economic times turned bad, more companies would simply choose to close their doors than be forced to pay 20 full time benefited employees to play free cell all day.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by dickbiggers

I feel the pain, I do. I'm not a shill for The Man. I'm just confused at what people expect the government to do about it. A private employer is under no legal obligation to provide a full time schedule or medical coverage. There are regulations about how they can treat their employees, but there are no regulations regarding to what an employee is entitled.

Look...nobody wants to go back to the days when Rockefeller and Carnegie were shooting into crowds of strikers. But if the government starts mandating that every corporation of a certain size have X number of full time employees at X salary with X benefits, the effects would be detrimental eventually as most companies would not realize a profit margin to justify carrying a bloated payroll through difficult times. When economic times turned bad, more companies would simply choose to close their doors than be forced to pay 20 full time benefited employees to play free cell all day.

I don't expect the government to do anything about it. I'm not pissed off at the government, which is already far too involved in this whole process as it is.

I also don't expect employers to keep people on if it doesn't make economic sense. Companies have to do what is takes to survive. If that company paid 20 fulltimers to play free cell, they deserve to go down the tube.

What pissed me off is the WalMart model of employment. Hire lots of part-timers, pay them minimum wage and get rid of them when they ask for a ten-cent raise after a year. People deserve to be treated fairly and companies got away with failing to do that for a couple of years.

On a happier note, the economy is improving and those same companies are wondering why even their fulltime people are leaving in droves. Karma and lower unemployment are coming back to bite them in the ass, especially in Silicon Valley where good employers like Google reap the benefits.