political statements

[ChiTownHoney]

Oh and the bit about slavery....Do you know where slaves came from?

The Europeans didnt just go into Africa and seek them out. They were hand delivered to them by BLACK African slave owners.

The more you know.

[mifje]

How about a new statement!!!

"in the near future there will arise 4 superpowers. 1. China, 2. united states, 3. europe and 4 russia. Just by having the most habitats China will evolve into the most powerfull one"

Let me know what you thibnk about it (No I am not from china...... but from europe).

Mifje

[JohnnyReb]

Being a world power takes a lot more than simply having the largest population. Having a large population does enable you to have a large army, but that’s pretty meaningless if you don’t have the heavy sea and airlift capacity to get not only the troops to where you want for them to fight, but all of their equipment as well. You also have to have a large and capable navy in order to protect your shipping, both military as well as merchant and a large and capable air force to provide air cover and close air support for your army once it’s deployed.

China is a LONG way from having all of the elements of being a global power, not to mention having massive internal problems.

I can conceivably see the EU evolving into a major world power, but there are problems there as well. The first one being that evolution would have to take place outside of the current NATO framework and would require massive increases in military spending. With the exception of Britain, there aren’t many European countries that are willing to invest much in defense.

Also, if the current NATO alliance were to breakup, Britain would almost certainly continue to ally itself with the US and so that would farther marginalize just how much real power the rest of the EU would have.

Beyond that, I think you overlooked a couple of countries. The first one being India. As with China, India also has a rapidly growing economy and in the case of India, they also have a relatively impressive navy and a growing air force. There are some problems for them as well, one of the most obvious being the India navy is weak in terms of submarines and antisubmarine warfare, therefore, any conflict between the US and India would seen the Indian navy on the bottom in very short order.

The other country you overlooked is Japan. At the moment, they are perfectly happy to stick to living in peace and making money, while not having to spend all that much on defense. However, a chaotic world situation, with multiple countries vying for power, would quite likely make Japan nervous enough that they would start to try to strengthen their position in the world.

[mifje]

Well when I said europe I didn't mean they would fight united states. I think they would work together. I agree china is having big problems ATM but that should not stop them. USSR was a superpower although it had enourmous internal problems. And if they didn't have it they created it.....

India I am not sure of, I think they will need a much longer time to become a superpower and I think they would "join" a superpower.

And by superpower I didn't mean army persee... If a country have a lot of richdom it could have an enourmous power as well.

[JohnnyReb]

Money only goes so far. In order for a nation to have real power in the world, they not only have to have a lot of economic power, they also have to have military power and have a willingness to use it. Also, post 1945, you can't play superpower unless you have nuclear weapons.

The fact that economic might alone doesn't make a superpower is illustrated by your own post. You mentioned China and Russia as being emerging superpowers but you, I assume, were lumping Germany into "Europe" and you didn't mention Japan at all.

My point being, behind the US, Germany and Japan are the most powerful countries in economic terms and yet they have relatively little power on the world stage.

[mifje]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

Money only goes so far. In order for a nation to have real power in the world, they not only have to have a lot of economic power, they also have to have military power and have a willingness to use it. Also, post 1945, you can't play superpower unless you have nuclear weapons.

The fact that economic might alone doesn't make a superpower is illustrated by your own post. You mentioned China and Russia as being emerging superpowers but you, I assume, were lumping Germany into "Europe" and you didn't mention Japan at all.

My point being, behind the US, Germany and Japan are the most powerful countries in economic terms and yet they have relatively little power on the world stage.

Hmmm how can I agrue with somebody who does have a good point??

Will think about it some more to see if I can say anything usefull against it

[ego]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

Being a world power takes a lot more than simply having the largest population. Having a large population does enable you to have a large army, but that’s pretty meaningless if you don’t have the heavy sea and airlift capacity to get not only the troops to where you want for them to fight, but all of their equipment as well. You also have to have a large and capable navy in order to protect your shipping, both military as well as merchant and a large and capable air force to provide air cover and close air support for your army once it’s deployed.

China is a LONG way from having all of the elements of being a global power, not to mention having massive internal problems.

I can conceivably see the EU evolving into a major world power, but there are problems there as well. The first one being that evolution would have to take place outside of the current NATO framework and would require massive increases in military spending. With the exception of Britain, there aren’t many European countries that are willing to invest much in defense.

Also, if the current NATO alliance were to breakup, Britain would almost certainly continue to ally itself with the US and so that would farther marginalize just how much real power the rest of the EU would have.

Beyond that, I think you overlooked a couple of countries. The first one being India. As with China, India also has a rapidly growing economy and in the case of India, they also have a relatively impressive navy and a growing air force. There are some problems for them as well, one of the most obvious being the India navy is weak in terms of submarines and antisubmarine warfare, therefore, any conflict between the US and India would seen the Indian navy on the bottom in very short order.

The other country you overlooked is Japan. At the moment, they are perfectly happy to stick to living in peace and making money, while not having to spend all that much on defense. However, a chaotic world situation, with multiple countries vying for power, would quite likely make Japan nervous enough that they would start to try to strengthen their position in the world.

I think you would be right 20-30 years ago... nowadays a strong army is not that important. It can make the difference between a strong country and a less strong, but not between the countries that were refered. The cost of a conflict and the possible consequences do not get covered by any possible profit.
China for example. Why would they get engaged in a conflict with their army? They are a huge market as much as a provider of products, at least for Europe. An attack would create huge problems and political pressure to the attackers even if China had no army.
Or Russia. With about 65% of European needs in energy covered by Russian gas and oil, who dares to attack? Which goverment will stay in power after a winter without gas?
Europe is a very good (if not the best) client (market) for most countries. Who would like to loose such a client?

Besides, a war between world powers cannot be won by any of them. Mutual economic destruction is the best outcome it could have.

[ego]

Originally Posted by theDarkOne

UUUMM Ego,I would try to respond to this but like most of your posts it makes no sense.I think i get that you buy into the haters propaganda but i can't be sure.Im sure you and the country you come from are perfect people Good luck with that..

Well, it seems that any opinion that is not in accordance with the U.S official one is considered propaganda from the haters... i would try to explain you, but i have a huge archive of real propaganda methods as much as methods of controlling the public opinion that were applied on Americans the last 50 years and that archive makes me believe that removing the blinkers from your eyes is almost impossible. So, i wont try.

No, we are not perfect. But we keep our shit within our borders.
And we believe that spending money and lives to "liberate" people or to false accuse and occupy countries is just wrong. Especially when those money could be used inside our country.

[theDarkOne]

[ego]

For a moment, i thought you would say something important, but no, you're not able.
The best you can do is post dogmatic views/statements that somebody convinced you they're right. Perhaps you should support them with some points besides consider them the ultimate truth. But i forgot... who doesnt agree is a hater... an enemy...






P.S Have they got you spayed today?

[theDarkOne]

Im guessing that was addressed to me.
Honestly Ego im sick of it.OK.You win.I lose.Your right.Im wrong.My country is bad.Yours is better.Your smart.Im an idiot.

Now you can post your reply and make yourself feel better.

Im done.

[somedude]

Originally Posted by ego

Well, it seems that any opinion that is not in accordance with the U.S official one is considered propaganda from the haters... i would try to explain you, but i have a huge archive of real propaganda methods as much as methods of controlling the public opinion that were applied on Americans the last 50 years and that archive makes me believe that removing the blinkers from your eyes is almost impossible. So, i wont try.

No, we are not perfect. But we keep our shit within our borders.
And we believe that spending money and lives to "liberate" people or to false accuse and occupy countries is just wrong. Especially when those money could be used inside our country.

Well ego Greece does have and has had it's foreign policy issues. There's the whole matter of objecting to the country of Macedonia calling itself that because there is a Greek province of the same name. There's the continuing tensions with Turkey over various islands in the Aegean Sea and let's not forget the mess involving Cyprus that has gone on for all these years. Of course there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Greece over US interference in their internal politics in the 50s mostly. Actually for quite some time US Diplomatic posts in Greece were some of the most dangerous do to the activities of certain anti-US groups in that country.
What's my point...I think ego has his own set of blinders on

[sindyloo]

Awww Dude? things arent that bad there?

Hell the Greeks and Turks sit down every day and have a pleasant time playing chess chatting and drinking Turkish coffee. And they are all the best of friends!

[ego]

Originally Posted by somedude

Well ego Greece does have and has had it's foreign policy issues. There's the whole matter of objecting to the country of Macedonia calling itself that because there is a Greek province of the same name.

MG Dude, what are you trying to compare?
Of course there are issues here as well. The difference lies on how one deals with them.
FYROM is a good example. We're seeking for a solution using political methods and international courts and laws.
You know, their military force is just non-existent. Two A-7 bombers are enough to control this country. Following the American example, we should set-up some false accusation, ask the U.N to punish them and when U.N denies, just attack on our own and occupie the country...
What blinders are you talking about?

Originally Posted by somedude

There's the continuing tensions with Turkey over various islands in the Aegean Sea

The last time a greek soldier stepped in Turkey's land was in 1922 and we had a war back then; your example is far from what U.S army does nowadays.
Its funny how you try to find things to say to others while you admit you dont agree with your country's politics...

Originally Posted by somedude

let's not forget the mess involving Cyprus that has gone on for all these years.

The meanning of the words above is "i dont forget". I really dont need you to encourage me not to forget.
That "mess" you are talking about is an invasion of Turkey in another nation with the U.S offering conveniences, what blinders are you talking about?

Originally Posted by somedude

Of course there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Greece over US interference in their internal politics in the 50s mostly.

The american citizens however, are welcommed! We dont hate you, only your politics.
Often, Greece is in the list with the "dangerous for american tourists" places. That started right after the goverment (under people's pressure) denied the use of greek land as U.S military base. To a magic way, Greece is removed from the list when U.S is expecting something from us (like positive voting for FYROM, 5 months ago) and gets in again when we are "bad boys" (like when we bought weapons from Russia).
You are free to think that Greece is a hostile environment for Americans; i believe that we are "punished" for not being good ass kissers.

Originally Posted by somedude

Actually for quite some time US Diplomatic posts in Greece were some of the most dangerous do to the activities of certain anti-US groups in that country.

US Diplomatic posts are dangerous everywere and that alone should make you think. Why you and not others? Canada is a wealthy country as well (if jealousy was the reason) but their posts are not attacked. Nobody likes your politics.
You might like to think that this happens due to US interference in internal affairs, but there is one reason more important: Politically speaking, U.S is a twat that bullies the world.

[JohnnyReb]

I'd just like to be the first to tell you to go fuck yourself.

I also want to congratulate you on the fact that it only took you 15 days to reply to somedude's post.

I'm hoping that if your brain continues to run at its current pace, you'll be able to formulate a reply to this post in time for Christmas.......

[ego]

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

I'd just like to be the first to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Aw, i hurted your patriotism? Truth hurts or what?
Its funny how you mind i say those things, but you dont mind for they happen..

Originally Posted by JohnnyReb

I also want to congratulate you on the fact that it only took you 15 days to reply to somedude's post.

Thanks, i deserve it! I was busy counting how many countries U.S have bombed/menace/invaded the last 60 years! Hell, i'm quick!

[Crotch_Ripper]

Originally Posted by Viktoria

Bush has murdered 655000 innocent people in iraq. republicans are no different under the skin. how is McCain different from Bush?

655017 You forgot mine

If your going to quote numbers get them straight.




Have a nice day. U.S Army, go to interesting places, meet new people, and kil them

[Crotch_Ripper]

Originally Posted by ChiTownHoney

Oh and the bit about slavery....Do you know where slaves came from?

The Europeans didnt just go into Africa and seek them out. They were hand delivered to them by BLACK African slave owners.

The more you know.

Funny how that doesnt seemed to get mentioned much. Chi you are 150% correct.

[theDarkOne]

I hope the next country we bomb is yours Ego...

America is bad,waaaaaaaaa

[ChiTownHoney]

True, the Americans force their way of democracy upon third world countries..thats just the way it goes. Was there U.S involvement in the recent Georgian/Russia debacle? I would be and wouldnt be surprised if they werent for many reasons.

Ego - Yes, America has kicked ass and taken names, but what are YOU going to do about it?? Maybe you should form a militia and arm yourselves and take it to the source itself. Bitching at Americans about what their government has done does absolutely nothing because we KNOW all this.

Also..you hate the fact that Americans can push their weight around, well its the survival of the fittest, and only the strong prosper..

I will be the first to say that Americans are assholes, because they do what they do..but its the way of life baby. You dont benefit me, then fuck you. You are DENIED access to my wealth and benefits of being friends with me. Isnt that usually how it is?? Play by my rules or GTFO. If you are too weak to stand up to me, then your people deserve to be slaughtered and taken over. More land for me. thats how assholes work and America is a big asshole and so is mankind. The truth is harsh.