Still Shaking My Head About ASBO

[Sierra]

From Wikipedia:

An Anti-Social Behaviour Order or ASBO (pronounced /ˈæzbəʊ/) in the United Kingdom (including the Republic of Ireland) is a civil order made against a person who has been shown to have engaged in anti-social behaviour. In the UK, there has been criticism that an ASBO is sometimes viewed as a 'badge of honour' by some younger people.

In the United Kingdom, an ASBO may be ordered in response to "conduct which caused or was likely to cause harm, harassment, alarm or distress, to one or more persons not of the same household as him or herself and where an ASBO is seen as necessary to protect relevant persons from further anti-social acts by the Defendant".[3] In England and Wales they are issued by Magistrates' Courts, and in Scotland by the Sheriff Courts.

Cases of orders have included:

* Vandalism
* Theft
* Abusive behaviour
* Harassment
* Flyposting
* Organising illegal raves
* Begging
* Whistling
* Suicide attempts

Less conventional uses of ASBOs, as listed by a report to the Home Office to illustrate the difficulties with ASBOs, include:

* Two teenage boys from east Manchester forbidden to wear one golf glove.
* A 17-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.
* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.
* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was abusive to his neighbours.
* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club.
* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.

Blow me down flat if I can understand how anyone thought this was going to do anything at all other than make the thugs laugh and serve as a way for law-abiding citizens to be harassed.

I would not have believed such a thing existed in a supposedly civilized country.

If they tried something like this in the U.S. there would be an outcry from sea to shining sea and whoever proposed such a thing would have to slink back into obscurity with his (or more probably her) tail tucked.

To the Brits and Irish out there - how's that working for ya?

[FuckingRotter]

The odd thing Sierra is that we already have criminal legislation covering the causing of alarm and distress etc etc etc. Criminal law act. Public Order act. Criminal Justice act. Blah blah blah. Liberals just can't help themselves can they? They have to steal our money and spunk it all on the latest idea fresh out of the think tank.

[Sierra]

Perhaps your liberals are different from ours. Although ours want to spend government money on some astonishingly far-fetched programs, they rarely involve the criminal justice system or even the civil courts. Our liberals here develop programs designed to offer a hand up in hard times which end up being exploited by welfare frauds and lazy SOBs who don't want to take their hands out of their pockets. (Don't get me started on that one.)

The thing with the ASBO is that a child of four could see that this program would result in foolishness and that the potential for abuse was too high.

Seriously, though. Does it do any good at all? What are the penalties for getting an ASBO? It appears to me that they have set the bar very low for the burden of proof.

To quote Maradona.....I have no words.

[FuckingRotter]

There are no penalties for getting an ASBO, it's a prohibitive order, compare it to a curfew or a restraining order if you will, breaking it may result in a fine or custodial sentence. Or another ASBO!

I don't have any referable figures, but I do recall reading an article a couple of years ago in which police statistics suggested that 2/3 of ASBOs issued to teenagers get broken. I'll leave it to other people to decide whether that is good or not. After all "good" is a matter of perception and opinion just like the arsehole and the instigator.

[pervipete]

I remember seeing that article, the problem is that the people they are aimed at don't give a shit about the law anyway, so why would they care about a piece of paper.

Thne problem is that the people who come up with this ideas have very little to do with these kids on a day to day basis, when they do it is only to ask a few stupid questions and ten walk away with their anwser, not realising that the little shits were just telling them what they want to here, they're bored, no jobs blah blah.

So they think, can't send the little darlings to jail, but we can't leave them unpunished, I know I give them a piece of paper, that'll make them behave.

[Hailo]

There is now some television documentary on people who have been given an ASBO. I don't know the statistic but the general attitude towards ASBO's are that they are a joke.

The younger generation tend to see this as a cool reputation to have. And the neighbours from hell just laugh them off.

There must be cases of where an ASBO has been given to a destructive person or group which has actually helped a community or victim but i don't know of any.

[pervipete]

I think the problem is, if you aren't taking any notice of your neighbours, police and various authorities anyway, what amounts to is a slap on the wrist isn't going to do anything.

I'm not sure what would work with these people, maybe community service, maybe some kind of jail time.

I wonder if we should train some of these people as builders and use them for goverment contracts.

Fucking Rotter would be better placed on how easy that would be to do, being in that trade.

[Lucy.]

Lol @ getting an asbo for attempting suicide.

"If you kill yourself, we're going to be really strict on you".

Asbo = slap on wrist. Kids are "cool" if they have one.

[FuckingRotter]

Government contracts? Aaarggghhhh! No! Don't give those bastards more money to spend.

We've had this before in our spat with Debaser, but since this isn't a heated argument I'll put it more politely. Manual skills and trades have become undervalued. The training needs to be taken out of government hands and traditional apprenticeships encouraged within construction industry. Why? Because we know what we're doing.

Putting kids on training schemes to carry out government work would invite accusations of labour camps for scum. And they'd be right. What we need is private initiative, put out a tender to build and run a replacement for Heathrow in the Thames Estuary, new motorway and other communication links to ease congestion, a new planning policy to encourage supertalls in our cities, a road link with Ireland and continental Europe. All built and run by private companies using British citizens and residents.

That would give those kids something to do and something to be proud of.

[batffink]

Sorry I asked!

[sindyloo]

Yea and here in the states its known as ADHD or some crap? just kids mis-behaving, so freaking what it happens every damn generation!

Oh and yes here in the states suicide is illegal so dont kill yourself or you`ll see jail time!??

[pervipete]

Originally Posted by FuckingRotter

Government contracts? Aaarggghhhh! No! Don't give those bastards more money to spend.

We've had this before in our spat with Debaser, but since this isn't a heated argument I'll put it more politely. Manual skills and trades have become undervalued. The training needs to be taken out of government hands and traditional apprenticeships encouraged within construction industry. Why? Because we know what we're doing.

Putting kids on training schemes to carry out government work would invite accusations of labour camps for scum. And they'd be right. What we need is private initiative, put out a tender to build and run a replacement for Heathrow in the Thames Estuary, new motorway and other communication links to ease congestion, a new planning policy to encourage supertalls in our cities, a road link with Ireland and continental Europe. All built and run by private companies using British citizens and residents.

That would give those kids something to do and something to be proud of.

I knew I'd get a good answer.

I like this idea.

Give 'em skills, then they can have pride in those skills. Right I like it.

Add to this the enhancing of flood defences.

I agree with you on the labour camp comments, even if it was a good idea, I can hear the comparisons to Hitlers autobahn scheme and Stalins rebuilding of the Soviet economy using slave labour.

[MARADONA]

I can't believe it's for real... i'm wondering who's next!

[snarkopo]

* Two teenage boys from east Manchester forbidden to wear one golf glove.
What???!!!

* 17-year-old forbidden to use the word "grass" as a term of abuse in order to threaten people.
Huh? Any calls me "grass" and I'll... I'll... WTF does that mean anyway? I mean I will absolutely ****
ah fuck, I don't know at all.

* A 15-year-old forbidden to play football in his street.
Um,,,yeah! I think..

* The oldest recipient of an ASBO, an 87-year-old man who was abusive to his neighbours.
Damn abusive bastard.

* An 18-year-old male was banned from congregating with more than three youths, and subsequently arrested when he entered a very popular youth club.
A Pedophile?

* The first farmer to be given an ASBO was instructed to keep his geese and pigs from damaging his neighbour's property.
Damn right! Geese can do Sooo much damage, damn birds.


England is weird.

[Sierra]

It seems that every country in the western world (and some in the east as well) has trouble with feral teenagers running the streets. The answer is obviously more parental control, but when both parents are forced to work just to make ends meet, that control is problematic.

Add that to the general rudeness and "fuck you" attitude and you get an Orwellian nightmare for which there is no simple solution. The economic climate makes it worse as well. People who would otherwise mind their own business are getting desperate and angry, feeling that they have to take matters into their own hands.

But seriously...ASBO's??? I've been reading about this since posting. This has got to be the stupidest, most ill-conceived thing ever. I wonder if there has been even ONE positive outcome from these orders? I just read one article that told me an ASBO had been given to a two year old for kicking footballs into people's windows. Huh? If a two year old can kick a football hard enough to hit a window often enough to be a nuisance, he is a prodigy and should be signed up immediately for some professional team.

[snarkopo]

Originally Posted by Sierra

It seems that every country in the western world (and some in the east as well) has trouble with feral teenagers running the streets. The answer is obviously more parental control, but when both parents are forced to work just to make ends meet, that control is problematic.

Add that to the general rudeness and "fuck you" attitude and you get an Orwellian nightmare for which there is no simple solution. The economic climate makes it worse as well. People who would otherwise mind their own business are getting desperate and angry, feeling that they have to take matters into their own hands.

But seriously...ASBO's??? I've been reading about this since posting. This has got to be the stupidest, most ill-conceived thing ever. I wonder if there has been even ONE positive outcome from these orders? I just read one article that told me an ASBO had been given to a two year old for kicking footballs into people's windows. Huh? If a two year old can kick a football hard enough to hit a window often enough to be a nuisance, he is a prodigy and should be signed up immediately for some professional team.

Have you seen "V or vendetta?" Does a good job of addressing all the paraniod bullshit of late. Politicians have known forever that you can get people to give up everything to the state if you create enough fear of some evil enemy.

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by Sierra

If a two year old can kick a football hard enough to hit a window often enough to be a nuisance, he is a prodigy and should be signed up immediately for some professional team.

LOL, thats the truth.

I still have no idea of what an ASBO is, but from what I gather, its the same as what we have in the states: A record.

[FuckingRotter]

Now don't go getting all excited Chi, an 87 year old man with a record is completely out of your league.

[ChiTownHoney]

I know, but then again you know he must be OG.

[FuckingRotter]

Original old git?!