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Old 05-08-2010, 01:20 PM   #1
mysterious-sexism
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Default Arizona Law

Hey everyone, I was wondering what people's views were on this new immigration law coming up in Arizona, that allows any police officer to ask for legal documents as to where a person is from. Now, I don't know what to think about it. Personally, I've always supported stronger border control, because I think that having people be able to freely cross the border is a risk to not only national security, but also opens the door for minor and major crimes that may be committed by criminals across the border.

My parents themselves immigrated to this country 30 years ago, so I know it is possible to come here legally if you work hard...but is this law going over the edge? Just curious...

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Old 05-08-2010, 01:54 PM   #2
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First off your facts are in error, they cannot just ask people for their papers. They must have been detained by law ewnforcement for some other reason.
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:27 PM   #3
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Why do I think of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

Couldn't resist...

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Old 05-09-2010, 02:32 AM   #4
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To be honest I want to see tougher laws. I want to see barbed wire and machineguns on the border. Mine the freaking river, or at lest let us good ole Florida boys send over some gators.

Now I realize that America was built by immigrants... In one way or another we are all immigrants or their decendants. Hell even Native Americans arent native. I am not anti-immigrant. I am anti Illegal Immigrant. Illegal.... Jeez what is so hard to understand.

Not only are these people criminals... yes every single one of them is a damn criminal... they are making America dumber every year. How do you ask, I'll tell you. How many Mexican doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers or scientist do you see hoping a fence, swimming a river or digging a damn tunnel. I'll tell you how many. NOT ONE!! But every damn fruit picker, pimp, pusher or narco south of Texas is busting his ass trying to get here.

Generation after generation immigrants have come to this country and in their own way they have made it better. Cubans and Chinese, Irish and Germans, Swedes and Italians and yes freed slaves and native Americans... the list goes on and on. people from every nation, every walk of life. All adding to the fabric that makes American great.

But not this generation. This generation doesnt want to come to America to be American. They dont want to add or contribute. They just want to take, and they will take until there is nothing left.

This is an invasion, it's a war for the soul of the nation and if the Federal Government wont protect us then it's up to the states to do it. Thank God for Arizona!!
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Old 05-09-2010, 02:58 AM   #5
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Interesting. "Not this generation" Why don't you just say it? Mexicans. "not this generation" how fucking transparent. They have been coming here doing the shit work we don't want to do for more than just this generation.

The Cubans are here because they got thrown out. They are not Americans in their mind and are not here because they want to be American, they just fled from Castro, If Cuba went to anything but a communist state they would flock back there in droves.
Mexicans, like people from anywhere are a mixed bunch, Many of them are just regular and good people. Don't tell me I don't know because I do. We have plenty in Cal and I interact with them all the time. But they have their bad element too, Mexican gangs are a problem in Concord and no doubt elsewhere.
What really tires me is the anti Mexican attitude when they do the shit jobs YOU would not do.
You wanna go pick vegetables in the field all day in the hot sun for sub-minimal wages? No! I know you don't. Don't even pretend that you do. But thanks to them we get out produce for far less than if Americans were doing it, getting paid at least minimum wage plus benefits. So quite whining.
And why do you always blame the Mexicans? You fucking know the American companies hire
them knowing they are illegal and can therefore pay them less than Americans. How fucking patriotic is that?
Fucking bunch of hypocrites.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:52 AM   #6
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Interesting, Mexico has been so rapidly developing that illegal immigrants into Us now come further from central and southern america.

Lil-Mac, you need to stop and think. Do you really believe the previous migrants came to selflessly serve to improve America? No. They came to make them selves better lives, they didn't give much damn what good that would do the host country. Some took by legal, others illegal means. Those that took by illegal (shinning example: Cosa Nosta) eventually were locked up or shot.

There is no difference between generations. Except their race.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:02 PM   #7
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Thats so weird. I thought I posted my thoughts about this in another thread...I dont see that thread anymore.

Anyhow....I dont see this thread going into anything about the law (which is a great thing and misconstrued by many for being racist). But the law does not permit anyone to be racist, but is clearly cracking down on people and demanding that they have the papers to be here. All other states should hopefully follow.

Anyhow...

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Originally Posted by Lil-Mac View Post


But not this generation. This generation doesnt want to come to America to be American. They dont want to add or contribute. They just want to take, and they will take until there is nothing left.
Ok well, while I dont agree that any generation of immigrants before only wanted to selflessly improve this country...you are right that they all want is to take.

You know what though, no matter what you think, there are liberals after liberals whom think every Mexican is a hard working, selfless chump who just "wants a better life." Sure of course they do. But if the government gave you handouts, I am sure many people would take advantage of them too. That is exactly what is happening.

I think that if the government is not going to do anything about this, we Americans can by ourselves. Make it hard for them people. Dont cater to them. Why?

Look...I work 1-2 Sundays a month in an outpatient clinic where we perform a few medical tests. Some women come from a outside, government run clinic where many illegals goI know a few who are illegal who get treated at that clinic). So every day, I get about 5-10 women with scripts from that clinic. They dont speak english, they dont have any papers, no U.S I.D, no insurance...and they get these tests FOR FREE!!! $600 to $1000 medical tests that the rest of us would have to pay for or through our insurance (which we pay for). They are illegal and the government gives them these super expensive tests for nothing, just for being here.

Ok, so I know this and that I cant do anything about it. But Damnit I make it hard for them. And alot of you will think I am a total bitch, I do understand and can speak Spanish (although far from Fluent). I am the only Latina that works in the clinic and I refuse to help them when they are struggling. Its my right, I dont have to. So, as the registrar is trying to understand them and get them registered, I sit back and watch, they have to wait about 30 minutes for the registrar to get a translator on the phone. Then registrar comes to me and asks me for admission papers in Spanish. Bitch me I say..."I dont have any, tell her 9 year old son to help her" I dont give a fuck. That task alone will take about 20 minutes more than it has to.

One time, I had a lady come in with her 13 year old son because she thought she had an appt at our clinic when her appt was really at another clinic. She gave me her free medical program papers from Government clinic and I told her in plain english "Your test is not here, its at this clinic". Her son translates and she looks at me like I'm the stupid one. I repeat "your appt. is not here, you have to go to this clinic" So they left. The thing is that I could have taken her at my clinic, but why should I? You got the papers and everything, than yes I would probably take you, but you dont. You are here illegally and have no rights to free healthcare. I know that she was at least an hour late to her appt at the other clinic and that they were probably closed by the time they got there. But you know what...there is nothing she can do about it. I didnt HAVE to take her according to protocol, but I guess it would have been the "decent human thing to do".

Yes, I hate illegals. I am also Mexican-American. I am not anti-Mexican...actually I dont like "anglo-American" culture at all. I am not racist against anyone. But I hate illegals.


Not only that, but when you are talking to them, dont try to speak Spanish. Look into their eyes and speak english and YOUR own pace. If they dont understand, tough shit.

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Old 05-09-2010, 06:08 PM   #8
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It's not just Mexican's, tho they are the tip of the spear. It's people from all over so dont bust my balls. And dont even try to play the race card. My wife was from Panama, my brother-in-law from Ghania. I have a mulatto niece who is smarter and got more on the ball than 90% of the people I have ever met. Top it off the best man at my wedding was a Mexican-American... a legal one I might add.

My problem isnt from where people come or what they look like. My problem is how they get here and what they do once they are here. Crime in border communities is off the charts. ID theft is rampant. The states are bleeding monies they dont have to pay for services these people arent entitled to because they are here illegally. I could care less if they are otherwise hard working or honest. Oh wait, they cant be honest because they broke the law getting here. That automaticly makes them the opposite of honest.. lets see that would be.. oh yeah. DISHONEST!!

As for the employers that hire them, and yes I know that's the honey that draws them. Those crooked employers should have their businesses shut down, their assets auctioned by the state and then locked up for 10 or 20 years. Just like they do for drug dealers. Let that happen a few times and you'll see these white collar scumbags cut these illegals loose faster than you can say INS.

If people are going to come here they need to respect our laws. No cutting in line, no stealing someone's ID, no coming on vacation or on a student visa then accidently forgetting to go home. being allowed to move here from another country is not a god given right of mankind, it's a privilege. Is that such a tough concept to grasp?
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:28 PM   #9
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By the way, my ex boyfriend (who is Mexican-American) got rear ended by an Illegal who begged him not to call the cops, because he didnt have papers. My boyfriend being a dumbass thought 'ok understand where this guy is coming from, I'm Mexican, I dont want to rat out my people, whatever'...he was a dumbass. He told the guy just to give him money for the damages, and the guy told him he would get the money and meet later with him. They exchanged information and he let the dude go on his way. Do you think he got the money? Hell no he didnt get the money. The guy gave fake information. I told him if he had the license plate number to report it a hit and run...but you know that the dude who hit him is not the registered owner on that car, probably the "registered owner" his his 3 year old daughter, or a victim of I.D theft.

Its us Mexican-Americans who are screwed in the long run because these illegals are buying cars and houses with fake SS numbers and they are taking peoples names. They are not taking Jake Smith's or Ashley Johnsons name...they are taking OUR names and our identities.

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Old 08-10-2010, 04:17 PM   #10
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Well it's Communism (maybe not egoist-communist but noone has heard of it lol) really telling people where there can or cannot live. To control the population that way, it is statism (of course Republicans are just as big as Statist as Democrats) gone made. We should have open boarders and not let bureaucrats ran our lives. Individuals should have the right to choose where they want to live. Not everyone who are "illegal" are criminals and the only thing that is "illegal" is the birth certificate there have.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:12 PM   #11
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Well it's Communism (maybe not egoist-communist but noone has heard of it lol) really telling people where there can or cannot live.
There is nothing communist about it, from the sound of your post I am not even sure you know what a communist is. All nations, every single one, reserves the right to say who can and cant enter their territory. As I have said several times, if people from outside the country want to come here to make a better life for themselves then great, more power to them. They just need to respect our laws in the process and enter the country legally. I dont think that is expecting too much.

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To control the population that way, it is statism (of course Republicans are just as big as Statist as Democrats) gone made. We should have open boarders and not let bureaucrats ran our lives.
Oh really now; so the desire for a nation to control it's own border is Statism (whatever the hell that is). So your position is everyone, everywhere, has the right to live where ever they want. So if everyone on the entire freaking planet just ups and decided to move to the good olde US of A then they have the right to do so. Yeah right. Dude wake up and smell the coffee.

There is a reason every country on the planet has Immigration laws. Many reasons in fact. Resource management, Health care, Education, Stress on infrastructure, Preservation of culture, Dude the list goes on and on. Not the least of which being knowing who the hell is in your country that might want to do something stupid... oh like, I dunno... fly a freaking airliner into a goddamn skyscraper.


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Individuals should have the right to choose where they want to live.
Within their own nation of birth, sure, I go along with that. However when it comes to moving to another country no. Not no but Hell No!!

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Not everyone who are "illegal" are criminals and the only thing that is "illegal" is the birth certificate there have.
Of course they are, they broke our laws the second they set foot on our soil without going the the proper process or stole someone's ID to get here. That by defination makes them criminals. Just because you dont mug, rape or kill someone doesnt make you honest.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:26 PM   #12
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sorry my answer was using a certain rhetoric just to stir up the debate but not too serious.

but i can i say is the law practical (so someone walking to shops to get some milk has to take his/her documents on they person) and what about the fourth amendment.

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:36 PM   #13
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The constitution of the United States applies to all of the citizens of the United States.
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Old 08-10-2010, 06:43 PM   #14
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The constitution of the United States applies to all of the citizens of the United States.
yes. but we do not know who a citizen until looking at their documents. so is it practical or just populism before the mid-terms. you decide!

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Old 08-10-2010, 10:48 PM   #15
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The constitution of the United States applies to all of the citizens of the United States.
CR you are 100 percent correct, but we need to know who the rightful citizens are and who is here illegally. How are we supposed to that if the authorities cant check citizenship status? ESP??
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:24 PM   #16
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CR you are 100 percent correct, but we need to know who the rightful citizens are and who is here illegally. How are we supposed to that if the authorities cant check citizenship status? ESP??
I have no problem with people who have been stopped by law enforcement to have to show their green card.
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