What is the Rowdy Room?

[Stainless Steel Rat]

I've just started perusing the forum again after being fairly well absent for a few weeks so I have only had a chance to see some of the posts about the RR and have not delved thoroughly into what may have transpired recently, however I would surmise that it's not that much different from what we have seen before to one degree or another. With that in mind I have a few thoughts.

"Do not enter unless you want to be insulted!", the warning that greets all prior to their entry into this near-legendary alcove. But what does it really mean and what is the true purpose of this part of the forum? From the time I first ventured into RB the RR has always seemed to be something of a "wild west" where the "ordinary rules" of the forum didn't seem to hold such sway. This seems to be the common conception amongst the members {and mods} as one has often seen unofficial and official warnings for "insults outside the rowdy room". If that's the case then is not the RR an "anything goes" forum where one can simply come and shout {via their keyboard} a stream of obscenities without fear of violating any rules of the forum? Or are there "limits" to the level or severity of the insult which are based on the sensibilities of the reader at the particular time?

I would suggest that this RR cannot have things both ways and perhaps it's time for a clarification of the exact purpose of the RR as people's ideas seem to be of somewhat varied and somewhat conflicted nature these days. Is the RR to be a place without any limits {or with very few} that allows folks to essentially keep their flame wars in a contained space rather than having them erupting on other parts of the forum? Or is the forum simply intended as a place for frank debate about issues which may cause strong emotional responses in folks and can become heated. If the purpose of the RR is the latter then I submit that the RR is not really necessary as one can have a spirited debate anywhere on the forum and no matter where that occurs the mods would expect the participants to be civil to one another.

Furthermore all the various exercises in troll-bashing and simply baiting other members with insults will no longer be an issue. As most trolls use personal insults almost immediately they would in theory face an immediate ban and the troll hunt is over before it starts. Likewise if a member seeks to bait another by hurling "personal insults" then there would no longer be a heated argument filled with colorful language as the moment a member throws an "insult" they would be warned and then banned.

So in the end we are left with again the question "What is the Rowdy Room for"? If it is to be a place where one must be prepared to be insulted then the faint of heart should simply stay away. {that sentiment has been expressed more than once to folks who have inadvertantly wandered into troll-bashings and started to catch heat themselves}. Furthermore, one or two comments which can be considered "hate" motivated should be deemed no worse than any other insult for are not ALL insults a form of "hate" in their own way? If a member simply begins a continuous string of ramblings attacking a group of individuals for reason of race, religion, nationality, gender etc. then by all means they are unlikely to be interested in serious dialogue about much of anything and are likely better off being banned. But beyond that folks should have the freedom to flail away with their verbal sparring {not matter how inane or insulting it may be to some}

If on the other hand a much tighter reign is to be used when it comes to speech that is considered "hate" oriented {and the trend in society these days seems to be towards classifying more and more things that folks don't want to hear as "hate"} then I submit that the Rowdy Room has outlived it's purpose and should be closed. Any future discussions can be safely conducted in any part of the forum as heated discussions that are civil are not detrimental and should a true "flame war" erupt then the participants would be subject to banning no matter where they chose to hurl their insults.

Just some thoughts to ponder

Cheers all from the Stainless Steel Rat

[pervipete]

Ah welcome back...and what a return

As for your question, I have a feeling that the answers will include a hell of a lot of personal perception.

Myself, I see it is a place to discuss controversial subjects and sometimes to vent, whether at something or someone, well it depends.

[batffink]

Originally Posted by Stainless Steel Rat

I've just started perusing the forum again after being fairly well absent for a few weeks so I have only had a chance to see some of the posts about the RR and have not delved thoroughly into what may have transpired recently, however I would surmise that it's not that much different from what we have seen before to one degree or another. With that in mind I have a few thoughts.

"Do not enter unless you want to be insulted!", the warning that greets all prior to their entry into this near-legendary alcove. But what does it really mean and what is the true purpose of this part of the forum? From the time I first ventured into RB the RR has always seemed to be something of a "wild west" where the "ordinary rules" of the forum didn't seem to hold such sway. This seems to be the common conception amongst the members {and mods} as one has often seen unofficial and official warnings for "insults outside the rowdy room". If that's the case then is not the RR an "anything goes" forum where one can simply come and shout {via their keyboard} a stream of obscenities without fear of violating any rules of the forum? Or are there "limits" to the level or severity of the insult which are based on the sensibilities of the reader at the particular time?

I would suggest that this RR cannot have things both ways and perhaps it's time for a clarification of the exact purpose of the RR as people's ideas seem to be of somewhat varied and somewhat conflicted nature these days. Is the RR to be a place without any limits {or with very few} that allows folks to essentially keep their flame wars in a contained space rather than having them erupting on other parts of the forum? Or is the forum simply intended as a place for frank debate about issues which may cause strong emotional responses in folks and can become heated. If the purpose of the RR is the latter then I submit that the RR is not really necessary as one can have a spirited debate anywhere on the forum and no matter where that occurs the mods would expect the participants to be civil to one another.

Furthermore all the various exercises in troll-bashing and simply baiting other members with insults will no longer be an issue. As most trolls use personal insults almost immediately they would in theory face an immediate ban and the troll hunt is over before it starts. Likewise if a member seeks to bait another by hurling "personal insults" then there would no longer be a heated argument filled with colorful language as the moment a member throws an "insult" they would be warned and then banned.

So in the end we are left with again the question "What is the Rowdy Room for"? If it is to be a place where one must be prepared to be insulted then the faint of heart should simply stay away. {that sentiment has been expressed more than once to folks who have inadvertantly wandered into troll-bashings and started to catch heat themselves}. Furthermore, one or two comments which can be considered "hate" motivated should be deemed no worse than any other insult for are not ALL insults a form of "hate" in their own way? If a member simply begins a continuous string of ramblings attacking a group of individuals for reason of race, religion, nationality, gender etc. then by all means they are unlikely to be interested in serious dialogue about much of anything and are likely better off being banned. But beyond that folks should have the freedom to flail away with their verbal sparring {not matter how inane or insulting it may be to some}

If on the other hand a much tighter reign is to be used when it comes to speech that is considered "hate" oriented {and the trend in society these days seems to be towards classifying more and more things that folks don't want to hear as "hate"} then I submit that the Rowdy Room has outlived it's purpose and should be closed. Any future discussions can be safely conducted in any part of the forum as heated discussions that are civil are not detrimental and should a true "flame war" erupt then the participants would be subject to banning no matter where they chose to hurl their insults.

Just some thoughts to ponder

Cheers all from the Stainless Steel Rat

Amen to that.

[FuckingRotter]

I'd prefer The Rowdy Room were a verbal blood bath.

[somedude]

A couple notes on the Rowdy Room.
One is that all rules apply to the Rowdy Room save the no personal insult rule!
Two malicious racism and bigotry is not tolerated in the Rowdy Room and never has been. Yes this is a broad term and has to be interpeted by the moderators but the Rowdy Room which has always been meant for FUN should not degenerate into a place filled with racism and bigotry.

[RapeU]

The RR is meant for goofing off about insults or blowing off steam.

[Sternenlied]

Well, the RR was initially intended to be a playground for people who wanted to engage in friendly banters, using insults in an equally friendy surrounding, to "fight" with members they like without the risk of misunderstandings created anywhere else on the board. Originally only members who had been posted in the RR themselves were allowed to be "attacked".

In time evolution shaped the RR into a place for members to express their anger towards others, start vicious arguments and openly insults members they were unable to take on in a sound discussion.

We have tried letting nature take its course (since frequent interventions in the beginning of this new era didn't meet with any success) and let the RR find its own balance. Our overall "silent understanding" was only to step in and take administrative actions when not only the rules (since all other apply) were broken but also the boundaries of human decency. A more subjective issue, no doubt, but it still is necessary.

The RR's relatively open policy has been abused numerous times before by several members to give them a plenum for hate-mongering concerning pretty much every minority imaginable, to tell people to go kill themselves, express pure sexism, etc.

On every such occasion a moderator stepped in - sometimes even other members, equally unwilling to let it slide - to hold and protect this extremely thin line separating people agreeing to be insulted by others and simple hate.

I will not claim no mistakes were ever made but I will claim however we have managed to keep the balance in a reasonable manner so far.

A decision made by a moderator is - in essence - all that happened, yet again. Nobody was warned, nobody was banned, nobody was attacked, nothing was deleted. I made a statement, nothing more, nothing less.

I do not see why it would cause such a stir this time when it has happened before on many occasions. The RR will go on - as it has been before - of course, there is no argument about that. Everyone should be clear however some boundaries still exist.

Now ... for rules. We decided (some time ago) not to put further rules on the RR - clarifiying anything and everything in detail - to leave an open space for our members to use, hoping for enough reason among them to see for themselves what is "all in good fun" and what is not. We intended to give everybody adequate tolerance to insult each other while giving us the opportunity only the step in if things moved too far south.

If people feel the RR has a purpose only as long as "anything goes" then yes, it has outlived its purpose indeed.

[Sierra]

Although I have for the most part stepped away from RB for the time being, as a longtime member I have seen this place change - in some ways for the better and in some ways for the worse.

When I first got here, the hatefulness in the RR was directed at particular targets. Someone had an axe to grind against another member or against a moderator's action and the "injured" party brought their gripe to the Rowdy Room. Endless threads of personal namecalling and accusations of all kinds flew through the air here and debates raged on and on. It got vicious in here at times, and people flounced off the board vowing never to darken RB's door again.

Once the dust cleared and everyone had their say, life went on. The people who left usually came back a week later, and I didn't see many lasting grudges playing themselves out all over the forum. Members generally got over themselves and while they might not have gone out to have a beer with their erstwhile adversary, they were willing to co-exist in the state that passes for "peace" on RB. This place was a large and disfunctional community of perverts. Everyone came in for some prodding and smartass comments, but the general tone outside the RR was irreverent and bantering but cooperative.

The convention was that insults against a particular person were acceptable, but insults against an entire group were not (except spammers and trolls, of course, although do we consider those groups human?). So I could call Sternenlied a bitch and a whore and tell her she had her head up her ass with no repercussions except for Stern's response. But I could not insult her because of her race, religion, nationality or sexual preference without the membership having something to say. A couple of years ago someone came on here and admitted that he was a cross-dressing homosexual. One of our more intolerant members made a fairly predictable remark, and left bleeding and clutching himself. Even our more "macho" members explained (with bats and lengths of pipe) that intolerance and hate of that kind was not welcome here. When a longtime member invited Stern to go kill herself, the membership set upon him like a pack of wild dogs - and rightly so.

So while I am opposed to censorship in any form, if the alternative is hatefulness against an entire group of people, bring on the censors.

I do not believe that people should be prevented from insulting each other here and vicious arguments on a personal level might well be a necessary release valve. But there are limits. Even for perverts, there are limits.

[TZOFOSHO]

The contents of the rowdy room mean very little to me as i generally don't post in it.

That said, i'm someone who doesn't try and piss anyone off, and a fairly thick skinned individual (at least when it pertains to an online forum).

I don't care what happens in the rowdy room, and i don't think anyone else should either. If no one is posting kiddy porn, or breaking any laws, i have no problem, it's just words.

We are on a board for adults with a fetish that is looked down upon by most people, i think that when you sign onto a board that caters to deviants, or at least those with a deviant fantasy, and then you open the most free room on that board, you kind of throw away your right not to be offended.

In my opinion, anyone who is offended by mere words should do their best not to go to places where they might be offended by something someone meant as a joke.

[TZOFOSHO]

Originally Posted by Sierra

But I could not insult her because of her race, religion, nationality or sexual preference without the membership having something to say. A couple of years ago someone came on here and admitted that he was a cross-dressing homosexual. One of our more intolerant members made a fairly predictable remark, and left bleeding and clutching himself. Even our more "macho" members explained (with bats and lengths of pipe) that intolerance and hate of that kind was not welcome here. When a longtime member invited Stern to go kill herself, the membership set upon him like a pack of wild dogs - and rightly so.

this part of Sierra's post pretty much illustrates my opinion, i have no problem with anyone saying anything, just know that the rest of the board may have another opinion.

[Spell Siren]

There was a lot I had to say about this, but wouldn't want any more friction, it hurts.....so I would only say that I quite agree with you SSR.

[pervipete]

Originally Posted by Sierra

The convention was that insults against a particular person were acceptable, but insults against an entire group were not (except spammers and trolls, of course, although do we consider those groups human?). So I could call Sternenlied a bitch and a whore and tell her she had her head up her ass with no repercussions except for Stern's response. But I could not insult her because of her race, religion, nationality or sexual preference without the membership having something to say. A couple of years ago someone came on here and admitted that he was a cross-dressing homosexual. One of our more intolerant members made a fairly predictable remark, and left bleeding and clutching himself. Even our more "macho" members explained (with bats and lengths of pipe) that intolerance and hate of that kind was not welcome here. When a longtime member invited Stern to go kill herself, the membership set upon him like a pack of wild dogs - and rightly so.

So while I am opposed to censorship in any form, if the alternative is hatefulness against an entire group of people, bring on the censors.

While I agree with the essence of this that we should not be allowed to insult entire groups, the problem is defining what is a racist post, and the intent.

Now on the face of it this is simple, if I call for the killing of all Muslims, blacks, asians etc, this is racism and I would be rightly jumped upon, and not just by the mods.

However, what about throwaway remarks, say for example, if in the middle of a discussion I used the line 'typical <insert race of choice> bastard', would that come under the heading, for me no for that is not my intent, for others yes.

And that is the problem there is a large grey area around the edges of what is considered racist behaviour and everytime someone is called on this of course they are going to kick back and say 'whoa what a minute' I know I would, and they are going to argue the toss, because, rightly or wrongly, they will not see themselves as racist.