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Old 05-16-2018, 01:38 PM   #1
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Default Ireland, freedom of speech and freedom to choose.

Just a bit of background. Sky Television News regularly features journalists from the on line news provider Spiked, which has been campaigning for freedom of speech, and against attempts by parliament in the UK to regulate the press.

Ireland is about to hold a referendum on whether or not abortions should be legalised.

Amid all of this, yesterday I was watching Sky and they featured a pro-choice rally taking place in Dublin, with a counter-demonstration by a pro-life campaigner. The pro-lifer was holding up a large placard in both hands, and a group of women were attempting to surround him and cover up both him and his placard with large bed sheets.

Then I noticed that the words on the placard had been pixelated out, although the pixilation did very briefly lag behind and I was able to read the words. Some thing about abortion being child abuse. Certainly no words that some might deem offensive. No swear words or such like.

So what struck me immediately was that the women attempting to censor this protester were actually being helped by a supposedly politically impartial television news channel. Which I'm pretty fucking certain violates the terms under which they are licensed to operate.

(Of course the whole business of licensing is another discussion altogether!)

It also struck me that a bunch of people expressing a claim to a right to do what they will with their bodys were attempting to deny another person the right to express their opinion. Some thing of a double standard, regardless of ones belief in the subject being "debated".

Any way, none the less, I have read that public opinion in Ireland is generally in favour of abortion, so if the government there actually carries out the wishes of the electorate as expressed in a referendum, they will finally be made to catch up with the rest of the civilised world in this regard.

Don't hold your breath though. They held a referendum on accepting a whole bunch of EU laws a few years ago, the voters told them to get fucked, so the government made them vote again!
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:22 AM   #2
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I'm surprised the government there is supporting abortion at all. Holy Catholic Ireland must have changed in the last few decades!
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:43 AM   #3
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Obviously an Argentinian bogeyman doesn't put the fear of God in to the Micks like a European one does.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:06 PM   #4
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Projections are that the eighth amendment referendum is going to be overwhelmingly in favor of repeal.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:44 PM   #5
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Two exit polls put the result at 68/69% respectively in favour of abortion. Welcome to the civilised world, Ireland.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:14 AM   #6
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Now all that remains is to convince the troglodytes of the DUP.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:07 AM   #7
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My understanding was that on gay marriage and abortion, the DUP would no longer use its veto in the event of a Stormont majority in favour. Some DUP Stormont members have also indicated they would vote in favour of gay marriage at least.

So all that remains is to convince all parties to get their acts together. Or sack the fucking lot. I'm surprised people in Ulster tolerate them for so long.

Of course, there is a little irony in this. Sinn Fein are pro-choice. Their obstinacy in supporting the European Union could result in women in Northern Ireland not being able to cross the border in to the Republic to obtain an abortion.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:32 AM   #8
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Not just Sinn Fein, the people of the north as a whole voted to remain. A substantial portion of the unionist population would have had to voted remain to provide a result like that.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:18 PM   #9
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Who voted for what has nothing to do with it at this point. The Irish government and Sinn Fein are stupidly backing the EU over future border arrangements, when it is in the interest of all Irish people, North and South, to have no real border.

The DUP want out of the EU, and right now, as you have pointed out, they very much pull the UK governments strings. They will never allow an arrangement that leaves Ulster a vassal state of the EU.

Of course, the government currently seem on track to completely betray the referendum result, and much is being made here of the fact that women in Northern Ireland may be able to travel to the South for an abortion. If the UK did walk away from the EU without a deal, that may not be possible.

Another example of how Sinn Fein favours political power over justice.
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Old 05-26-2018, 03:44 PM   #10
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On island with a history of irony, this one must be near the top, the two organizations still in favor of banning abortion are the Orange Order and the Roman Catholic church. Strange bedfellows indeed!
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:02 PM   #11
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I doubt they are going to form any sort of allegiance to preserve the status quo.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:19 PM   #12
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True enough, in the Orders eyes, the ban on abortion is just a ploy to breed more little Papist demons.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:33 PM   #13
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Yes, well, a sect that believes spilling your seed on the ground is a sin is bound to get looked at a bit funny!
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:20 AM   #14
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MPs, including cabinet ministers, and opposition MPs, are calling on Theresa May to introduce legislation that would liberalise abortion laws in Northern Ireland. So Sinn Fein get what they want, imposed on them by the British government!

The DUP may not like it, but will they make much trouble about it when they have British territorial waters full of fish to fry?
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Old 05-27-2018, 06:36 AM   #15
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don't be too sure the DUP will roll over on this, DUP MP Ian Paisley( the one that's alive) is already quoted that Northern Ireland will not be bullied into accepting abortion on demand.

If the DUP closes ranks and takes a hard line on this, it will be interesting to see if May is willing risk her fragile coalition coming apart over an issue that has no effect on the majority of the UK public.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:06 AM   #16
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May is done for any way, she just doesn't know it yet!

Thing is, if May doesn't do it, then another MP could introduce a Bill. Say, a Sinn Fein MP for example, if they did their job properly. Also, the extra funding promised to Northern Ireland is more or less dependent on DUP cooperation. Liberalising abortion laws in the province would get cross party support, Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the opposition, is already calling on the government to intervene.

Basically, any party not supporting reform in Northern Ireland, is going to look like the bad guy. The DUP are the largest party at the moment, but there is no government there, and it is about time Westminster started legislating there, because without a government, the province is getting left behind.
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Old 05-27-2018, 01:21 PM   #17
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Arlene Fosters take on changes to abortion law in Northern Ireland, from Sky News website:

"A referendum was held in the Republic of Ireland because of the constitutional prohibition on abortion that existed there. No such constitutional bar exists in Northern Ireland.

"The legislation governing abortion is a devolved matter and it is for the Northern Ireland Assembly to debate and decide such issues."

She added: "I want to see the Northern Ireland Assembly restored and put no preconditions on the immediate establishment of an executive.

"Some of those demanding change are the same people blocking devolution or demanding that Westminster change the law whilst simultaneously opposing direct rule."
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:15 AM   #18
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Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston, who is chair of the health select committee (select committee are cross party groups that are formed to help make a political consensus for certain policy and legislation making), has said that at the very least there should be a referendum on the issue in Northern Ireland.

Couple of problems with this.

Abortion is not a matter of politics, or of morality. It is a matter of personal choice about what a person does with their body. A vote against reform essentially kills that personal choice, and it doesn't matter if 99% are against a person making that choice, since it is not the 99%s choice to make. A referendum shouldn't be needed, a right thinking legislature would simply remove this prohibition.

Brexit. If Northern Ireland voted to reform abortion laws, any one insisting abortion laws be reformed, but then doesn't respect the vote for the UK to leave the European Union, is just going to look like a cunt! Could be tricky for Sinn Fein!
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Old 05-28-2018, 07:49 AM   #19
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Nothing tricky at all about it for Sinn Fein. The people they represent, along with a fair number of their unionist neighbors, voted to remain. So there is no inconsistency whatsoever in respecting the wishes of a referendum on abortion. What happens on that other island east of the Irish Sea is no concern of theirs.

Recent polls have shown that were the vote taken today, the remain vote would be even higher, among both communities.
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Old 05-28-2018, 08:23 AM   #20
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Ah, polls.

What you're forgetting, and what Sinn Fein seems to refuse to accept, except when it suits them, such as insisting the British government impose abortion reform in the province, is that Northern Ireland is in the United Kingdom. The EU referendum was a UK wide referendum, and the vote was to leave. So if Sinn Fein wants to stay, it better get Ulster in to the Irish Republic a bit fucking quick!

The SNP made the mistake of suggesting that a vote to remain in the EU would equate with a vote to leave the United Kingdom. In the last general election no party got their arse handed to them quite like the SNP did! Support for the Union in Scotland actually seems to have grown, and it is probably because the SNP come across as a bunch of whiney cunts!

Mind you, I have to confess, given the news coming out of Italy today, the chances of the UK being able to leave the EU clean and clear, in a peaceful and democratic manner, seem more remote than ever.

The supra-national organisations such as the IMF and the EU, just don't seem willing to allow dissent to happen.
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