Click for Pay vs. Rewards or Not at all?

[Stainless Steel Rat]

Since I rarely start threads and more often just comment on them this may come as a shock to some but the recent furor on the movie forum has spurred me to write this post. I am putting it here in the rowdy room to spur open and fervent debate, NOT to start fights which will simply degenerate into name calling.

First an excerpt from the forum rules as was used on the movie forum:

No usercash or other profit-based hosting services are allowed. This is a free board, not an opportunity for extra bucks. (linkbucks, euros4click etc).

I think it's important to define and understand what exactly this rule means here. For essentially all filehosting sites offer some form of incentive for their uploaders based on the download traffic. By that simple definition {reward for downloads} nearly every site could fall under this blanket ban. My interpretation of the intent of the rule is that intermediary and malware laden redirects which force you to jump through hoops to get to the actual file was the purpose of this rule, not filesharing services which offer cash for downloads.

To be fair here, I knowingly download from some of these kinds of sites all the time. Several blogs I visit to get JAV films post their movies using multiple filesharing services. And on some of the movies they share they run redirects through pay-per-click advertising frames to generate revenue. No attempt is made to hide this, they even label the links as "donator links", I consider that a fair trade for getting a movie for free that I wouldn't otherwise be able to get my hands on. Of course most of the ads, banner and frames are already blocked at such sites I simply have to be vigilant for new things which I don't want clogging my system.

The point I'm trying to illustrate here is the idea of revenue/reward generation with my eyes wide open vs. the deceptive individual who is purely on a profit based venture and has no real interest in what they are posting. We see that often enough in the vanilla garbage with is posted with the malware links, that individual is simply spamming dozens of forums on a regular rotation that they know to be "adult" in nature without actually paying any attention to the specifics of the fetish covered by each forum.

Every uploader will tailor their choice of filehosts to their own needs, in my case I use rapidshare. My selfish reason? It's the most common host and I download many mainstream horror and thriller films from a variety of websites and the filehost of choice on those forums is rapidshare. So when I began my days as an uploader some months back I chose RS so that I could generate RS points and get a premium account to use for downloading large movie files in a timely manner {as a free user it could take days to get an entire movie at times}. Does this make me a bad guy for wanting to get something in return for my efforts?

In a nutshell if you object to a filesharing service which provides reimbursement for the uploader then don't download anything from that particular provider. Most files get posted by multiple individuals anyway so a variety of filehosts will often be available to choose from for just a single movie. If a filehost is deemed to be summarily bad due to excessive malware and popups then that filehost should be subject to banning or being put on a "disallowed list" such as HRH has been working on.

Two specific examples to show my opinions on the matter:

Poster #1: posts a single movie sliced into files of 1-2 minutes in duration so that an downloader needs to download 15 pieces to get the entire movie. To me this is a blatant attempt to simply increase downloads and not in the spirit of sharing with the forum. Action should be taken by the mods and the person warned or banned.

Poster #2: posts multiple chunks of a movie in moderate sizes for download {10-15 MB size files}. Here though the file size is small, I am willing to cut some slack to the uploader given the fact that it has been confirmed that this is how the files were originally posted at the source! If the poster had taken a large file and broken it up then I have a problem but taking smaller files and posting them "as is", while I would prefer larger downloads myself {as would most folks} I'm not going to begrudge someone who posts that way. If I really want the file then I'll download it so long as they aren't trying to be deceptive and load malware onto my system.

As an additional note here, I am aware that some sites post their movies in 15 or so tiny pieces, but these are often not the original sites that share the films, they are "spin off" sites which are themselves little more than scams. If you really want to share a collection of 15 tiny files with folks then put them in a folder, rar them up and split them to a reasonable size as the solution to the uploading issues.

The "board police" have taken a very active role in helping to keep the forum {especially the movie forum} clean from unnecessary clutter and spam. However we all must remember that we are mortal too. Some of these new posters simply need a kind word or a gentle nudge to guide them into becoming productive members of the forum. I would hate to think that by our being overzealous in jumping on a new person we drive off a potential asset to the forum simply because of a misunderstanding. Just a few thoughts for everone to partake of.

Cheers all from the Stainless Steel Rat

[MARADONA]

I already replied to El Boku...but his thread goes deleted...beh i know these cash links are not something of good...
i just ask to myself if someone is happy that El Boku is leaving...well...in my case not.
It's his decision of course...i just found this stuff "secondary"...since we are going to loose one of the best poster in history.

[HRH1948]

About 50% of the discord and controversy on this board revolves around the choice of hosting sites. I too have wondered as to the logic of a no pay per click site rule. I too have seen a rules conflict in that there are "awards" given on almost all of the hosting sites.

In my mind, the issue is not speed or the poster making a personal gain from his posts. The issue is about excessive adware and malicious garbage that some of these hosting sites try to funnel into our systems. The pay per click sites seem to be more guilty than most.

And, for every adware prevention program and every browser out there, there are ten thousand little soft skinned nerds behind their keyboards working on ways to circumvent the safety systems in order to funnel more debris into our systems.

If we could agree on a "use only" hosting plan, the controversy, bickering and discord on this subject would be over.

If you haven’t seen this and have an interest, I would appreciate your input and thoughts:

Originally Posted by HRH1948

This draft of a possible solution includes three additions to the board, as well as one deletion.

First, an addendum to the rules along the line of:

Screens caps and photos can be posted using only the following hosting sites:

1. Imagevenue
2. Part.it
3. PictureStash
4. Imagehaven
5. Messyshare
6. Sexupload
7. Funkyimg

Files can be posted using only the following hosting sites:

1. Rapidshare
2. Megaupload
3. DepositFiles
4. MediaFire
5. EasyShare
6. Megaporn
7. FileFactory
8. Netload

For additional information see the "Approved Hosting Site" sticky.


Second, the "Approved Hosting Site" Sticky

In an effort to reduce spam, pop-ups, malware and other kmnown issues with some of the many available posting sites, Effective MM/DD/YY ONLY the following hosting sites are approved for use on this board:

Screens caps and photos can be posted using only the following hosting sites:

1. Imagevenue
2. Part.it
3. PictureStash
4. Imagehaven
5. Messyshare
6. Sexupload
7. Funkyimg

Files can be posted using only the following hosting sites:

1. Rapidshare
2. Megaupload
3. DepositFiles
4. MediaFire
5. EasyShare
6. Megaporn
7. FileFactory
8. Netload

If you begin to have problems with excessive pop-ups or any malicious activity generated from one of these sites, please post your problem (hopefully including a screen cap) in the Hosting Site Evaluation Thread.

If you have a different and clean site please post a sample post in the Posting Site Submission thread for review, consideration and possible inclusion to the approved list.

Third, a new thread or possibly another sticky labeled, “Hosting Site Evaluation”

If a reliable site goes bad and starts mischief, it can be reported and evaluated there for possible deletion from the approved list.

If a new and reliable site is discovered, a sample post can be placed in this same thread, for evaluation and possible inclusion into the approved list.

This allows for the discovery of new and possibly better sites as well as a method to remove sites gone bad.

Finally, the rule against using a pay per click hosting site would be deleted.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by HRH1948

About 50% of the discord and controversy on this board revolves around the choice of hosting sites. I too have wondered as to the logic of a no pay per click site rule. I too have seen a rules conflict in that there are "awards" given on almost all of the hosting sites.

In my mind, the issue is not speed or the poster making a personal gain from his posts. The issue is about excessive adware and malicious garbage that some of these hosting sites try to funnel into our systems. The pay per click sites seem to be more guilty than most.

And, for every adware prevention program and every browser out there, there are ten thousand little soft skinned nerds behind their keyboards working on ways to circumvent the safety systems in order to funnel more debris into our systems.

If we could agree on a "use only" hosting plan, the controversy, bickering and discord on this subject would be over.

If you haven’t seen this and have an interest, I would appreciate your input and thoughts:

It's very good! Maybe we can add a couple of more file-hosts...but for the rest it's perfect.

[HRH1948]

Originally Posted by MARADONA

It's very good! Maybe we can add a couple of more file-hosts...but for the rest it's perfect.

I'm open to any and all suggestions. Which file hosting site(s) would you like added?

[HRH1948]

Newland,

On many porn sites, the vids are offered in small segments. The small files that xposter uploaded, came that way on the site. He didn't make them. I believe dinker99 pointed this out in the original and now controversal Army Tales Thread. I don't see the size of the files being posted as being a hassel or a problem. I can join them, split them, unrar them, and manipulate in almost any direction.

Speed is not the issue. The speeds of all of the hosts vary dramatically from one locality to another.

Making money is not an issue (with me). If the poster is making some cash, getting a Rapidshare decoder ring and an extended premium account while I get free files, I certainly don't have a problem with that.

I'm not bashing my eastern bloc friends, but a majority of the sites in question (and a new one pops up every day), are akin to playing Russian roulette. It's about the excessive pop ups and the malware attempts offered by these roulette style hosting sites.

[HRH1948]

Originally Posted by newland11

Couldn't he put all that vids into 1 rar/zip file?

Maradona did it too as many other posters!
They put 4,5 or 6 vids into 1 rar/zip file and upload that file on a host site.
I know xposter and many other like him may be someones friends in here,but i don't buy it.
I'm sorry Hrh,i just don't buy it!

I wasn't trying to sell anything. I do not know xposter and I have no axe to grind in this ongoing disagreement. In my opinion, there is a mountain being constructed out of a molehill. I will simply say again, the size of posted files is a matter of complete indifference to me. An argument over your font size and the color of your text would make as much sense to me.

[pervipete]

I have to say, I'm not bothered either way, if someone has gone to the time and effort of uploading onto the site so that I can get them for free, it would be illmannered of me to complain if he was getting something out of it.

I not bothered about small/ large file sizes. To be honest, downloading small chunks over a period of time isn't that much of a hardship compared to downloading a large file on a free service, both takes time.

[pervipete]

The problem is not so much having a rule about this, but having a rule that works.

Too liberal and too much crap will get through.
Too rigid and it risks becoming damn near possible to post videos.

[HRH1948]

If something on the order of post #4 is put into place, this issue becomes moot.

Newland is correct. Somedude is correct. The rule is there for a logical purpose and the rule must be followed.

I think the rule is loosely worded and essentially all of us flex the rule when we post on any site that has an incentive program.

Check out post #4. PM me or post suggestions. This bickering and childish wrestlemania could end with such a change in the rules.

[sexfiend]

Originally Posted by newland11

Couldn't he put all that vids into 1 rar/zip file?

Maradona did it too as many other posters!
They put 4,5 or 6 vids into 1 rar/zip file and upload that file on a host site.
I know xposter and many other like him may be someones friends in here,but i don't buy it.
I'm sorry Hrh,i just don't buy it!

Newland you and i have talked about this before and you know were i stand, but not everyone can play rar/zip files,like me.I have an older computer and non of the players i have run those files,now i have tried many times to download the right stuff to get them to run,but it never seems to work for me.That being said if someone is posting small files to earn money i don't care for it.

[sparks]

The intent of any rule banning pay per click sites is simply that post made that benefit the poster via cash are not allowed.

The reason is that as the poster of such trash figures he can just keep adding what ever trash pop-ups that earn him/her money including viruses ad-ware etc then the more that will be added.

I don't think getting account points from rs or any other premium site membership you may have is the same at all.

If RB allows posts simply to make poster money it will be far more spamming and other crap than we could imagine.

cheers

[Sierra]

Let me just say right up front that I don't download a lot, so I'm not the "target" of the uploaders here. However, ten people like me DO download a lot, so here's my two cents, from someone who is new to this game.

1. First of all, I do not care at all if someone gains in some way from my download so long as I don't have to pay. Just about everyone who posts vids here gains in some way. Most get RapidShare points, but others might get a little cash from the click. I do not care, and more power to you. However, if I have to give my credit card number to get in to a site, I won't go there and I won't be back to the thread. Ever. It's that simple.

Of course, opening the site up to pay-per-click does present another issue that should be resolved. I do NOT want to see begging posts. If I think your vid is good, I'll thank you. If it's REALLY good, I'll rep you. If not, I won't do either one. If you ask me for rep or get whiny because nobody thanked you, I won't be back to your thread. If you're really obnoxious about it, I will neg rep you. Piss off enough people and your rep goes negative - most downloaders will not deal with a poster in negative rep numbers, so you're the one who loses in the end.

2. If someone breaks a vid into seventeen pieces, it's a pain in the butt and it's rude, but I can live with it. I'm not very likely to download that vid, but whatever.

3. If I have to sit through 10 seconds of Adult Friend Finder to see screen caps, I can live with that. But if the popups start and my adblocker or virus scanner sirens go off, I'm outta there and that poster has lost me as a downloader. I've gotten more crap on my computer from image hosts than from downloading vids by several orders of magnitude, but some of the vid hosting sites are just horrible.

I also don't mind a 45 second wait - or even a minute - to download for free. I have a RapidShare premium account and I won't pay for another service, so I'll live with it. I do mind a 10 kb/sec download speed. I'm seldom that patient so I just don't download from those sites. Again - I vote with my feet, so to speak. If I don't like the host, I don't download the vid.

4. That brings me back to the real point of all this. A good friend of mine recently got hit with the conficker virus. He had to wipe his entire hard drive and start over. I myself did a little looking around in the movie section here the other day - and I mean a LITTLE looking around. Maybe 20 minutes. When I ran Ad-Aware afterwards, even with my ad blocker software and virus software I had 376 tracking cookies and four registry hacks. As a relative newcomer to the downloading game, I'm not happy when I click on screen caps and get five or six popups that won't go away. I'm even more unhappy about having my home page hijacked, continual popups trying to get me to buy some sort of service, and having my computer slowed to a crawl. Pay per click is a miniscule issue in comparison.

In short, so long as I can download vids and look at screen caps in relative safety from malware and pernicious popups, I'm happy. These vids are occasional entertainment for me, so I can take them or leave them. I have certain things I like to see, and if I see those in the screen caps I'll download it. If you get something from my download and I don't have to pay for it, good for you.

[sparks]

Sierra=Just about everyone who posts vids here gains in some way. Most get RapidShare points,

I do not do that at all dear each post I make is just to share with the members here

I gain absolutely nothing but aggravation at times when an upload goes astray

I think your comment is a little presumptuous dear

and Ill add that what somedude did was right on target

he was challenged and stood his ground as he should cause he was right

I dont want to see eb leave but so be it if thats what he/she thinks

cheers

[sparks]

did I say dear

[Fibonacci]

Originally Posted by sparks

I do not do that at all dear each post I make is just to share with the members here

I gain absolutely nothing but aggravation at times when an upload goes astray

I think your comment is a little presumptuous dear

and Ill add that what somedude did was right on target

he was challenged and stood his ground as he should cause he was right

I dont want to see eb leave but so be it if thats what he/she thinks

cheers

Maybe this is some friendly banter I don't catch, then sorry.
But what is a reason to pick one not important think from such a post and try to make a fight on that? At least that is how it seems to me.

Btw. this is truth, nearly everybody gain something for posting. Even if it is just a good feeling

I understand perfectly what Sierra said. I am on the same wave.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by sparks

I do not do that at all dear each post I make is just to share with the members here

I gain absolutely nothing but aggravation at times when an upload goes astray

I think your comment is a little presumptuous dear

and Ill add that what somedude did was right on target

he was challenged and stood his ground as he should cause he was right

I dont want to see eb leave but so be it if thats what he/she thinks

cheers

To me she just stated her point of view...without act like a superior girl...since she is not into movies like us.
Btw you said something of right...yes it's not true that every poster here gain something from his uploads.
In my case i never gained a single point...i'm not proud of it...it's just the prove that not everyone who share files gains profits.
I'm very sorry to see El Boku leaving...yes i didn't hide my feelings toward this recent problem...
i just think he is a great member of this board...and that we are going to loose a lot...yeah...
talking about of movies...he is over me from a long shot...and i think that his presence here is very important.
Last thing, El Boku is a man.

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by HRH1948

I'm open to any and all suggestions. Which file hosting site(s) would you like added?

Beh...i pretty like i-folder for exemple...yes it has sponsors...and it's not so simple to use...due to the russian...
but it has a decent speed...no waiting time...and you can also dl two files at once.
I have no problems with uploadbox too, neither wth ************, but this is just me...since this file-host is banned here...

ps. ************ stands for U P L O A D E D. T O

[Stainless Steel Rat]

Originally Posted by newland11

SSR,you said very interesting things!
I agree with you in most of them!I know you created this thread because i protested against that thread yesterday.

You are not a bad guy because Rs gives you points for every don't know total of downloads.Everything cool for me!I know that the host sites,in a way or another reward you for your downloads.And that doesn't bother me at all!
<snip>
The thing i don't accept is that people tend to abuse the system for making $$$!
You can't tell me that a video of 90 mb,splitted in 6 parts is ok!!!
<snip>

Even files of 50 mb would be ok,as that poster said in his new thread.And one thing is to say,another is to do.He says he can upload files of max size 50mb,and then he post files of 15 mb...

So tell me what is the difference between the spammer who is posting every day vids of 4 mb,and this one posting files of 15 mb?
<snip>

Just to let you know I didn't create this thread specifically to pick on anyone or single anyone out, but I admit that the goings on in that thread was my catalyst in making this post. And I was being semi-facetious about being a bad guy for getting something in return for using rapidshare, as realistically most uploaders get such a benefit from their efforts as they are often downloading as much bandwidth {if not more} than they upload.

To be fair here my contention is that since the files were originally configured in the 14 MB size at the point of origin, I don't have a problem if the person posting them keeps them in that same configuration and posts them separately. Had he taken a larger complete video and sliced it up I would object. Perhaps the direction we should be taking here is establishing on the forum a minimum acceptable filesize for a particular movie? No splitting below 30MB, or 40MB, the number would be arbitrary to be sure but could serve to help the situation.

As to the difference? I think it's in the intent more than anything else. The character of "xposter" who I didn't mention by name originally didn't cover himself in any glory and essentially shot himself in the foot by coming out and blatantly stating that his aim was to make money!

Originally Posted by HRH1948

<snip>
Making money is not an issue (with me). If the poster is making some cash, getting a Rapidshare decoder ring and an extended premium account while I get free files, I certainly don't have a problem with that.
<snip>

And this is essentially how I feel about the entire matter. So long as the mechanism by which the poster gains his rewards isn't going to inconvenience me with overly many pop-ups {or worse - malware} then I have no problem with clicking pay off links at various places where I get movies from.

Originally Posted by sparks

I do not do that at all dear each post I make is just to share with the members here

I gain absolutely nothing but aggravation at times when an upload goes astray

I think your comment is a little presumptuous dear
<snip>
cheers

I'm a bit disappointed by what myself and others perceive here as a rather condescending tone towards the extremely sexy Sierra {just had to add that }. Her words echo mine just in a slightly different wording. And as pointed out by Fibonacci below, everyone gets something from what they are doing even if it's just the satisfaction from sharing with people. The idea of a totally selfless act which gains the person doing absolutely nothing is one which I cannot buy into for mere mortals such as ourselves.

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

Maybe this is some friendly banter I don't catch, then sorry.
But what is a reason to pick one not important think from such a post and try to make a fight on that? At least that is how it seems to me.

Btw. this is truth, nearly everybody gain something for posting. Even if it is just a good feeling

I understand perfectly what Sierra said. I am on the same wave.

As noted above hers are the same as my thoughts also

Originally Posted by MARADONA

<snip>
I'm very sorry to see El Boku leaving...yes i didn't hide my feelings toward this recent problem...
<snip>

And as to El_boku's motivations one could only guess and I am not one to speculate on such things so I'll simply leave it at each person needs to do what they think is the right thing to do.

Which brings us to...

The idea here is simply to find a happy medium where everyone understands what is acceptable to post and what is not. Some folks will always try to find a way to "milk" the system and turn what should be a relatively simple process of movie sharing into a complex scheme to get rich. Some folks will be very clever about it and may never be noticed, others {most of them} will be so ham handed as to immediately obvious what their purpose is in the way they choose to share files.

I like the idea of a list of recommended filehosts as has been proposed by HRH, I also think a list of banned filehosts {due to malware issues} is also a good idea. I do not however think a list a MANDATORY filehosts is the way we should be attacking this problem. Though new hosts do pop up periodically I don't see that the board will be flooded with dozens of them each day making it impossible to keep track of. In the past few months I would say we have experienced at most about a dozen total filehosts which I would say are deserving of a ban for the malware problems they have. It simply seems like more because these same hosts keep showing up again and again as the same folks who have been banned keep re-registering and posting the same old crap over and over.

So hopefully we are all continuing to learn things here folks and by offering suggestions and alternatives we can be a positive force to working out solutions to making everyone's forum visits more fun {and safer}. So keep the noodles working. It will be interesting to see what the final form of HRH's proposal is and then what the moderators can do with it. They may have some alternate ideas of their own.

Cheers all from the Stainless Steel Rat

P.S. is it just me or does anyone else think Phantom never listens?

[theDarkOne]

this thread has some of the longest posts i have ever seen.

When will the Cliff Notes version be available?