Racist black baby thief thwarted.

[Hailo]

I have mixed feelings about Madonna and her wanting to adopt a child in a third wolrd country.

Positive feelings.

This child will have all the wealth and education.

Negative feelings.

This child lives in an orphange, i have not done any research on what Orphanages in Africa are like, so i don't know whether the orphange try to create a family atmosphere to these children. If they do try and create this, then her bond with this 'family' will be broken.

Madonna may say that she will take the children back to their roots but once you have taken them from their roots and show them convenieces that make life far better and quicker, this child is not going to say when she grows up "thanks Madonna but im going back to Africa" but then again, she may say that. This child will have lost her culture, taste of food and such like but at the same time she will have a home but then again Madonna travels around, what kind of home will she actually have.

If i could afford to, i would love to adopt a child but i would adopt a child from the UK, purely because there are alot of children that just want a home and some love.

So if Madonna really wants to adopt, why didnt she adopt a child in America? Maybe she researched on this girl and fell in love with ehr and just wanted to protect her?

So to be honest, after that waffle i have just written, i am still no better in knowing whether i agree to her trying to adopt a baby from a third world country.

[pervipete]

Don't worry missy, we love your waffle, it's why we love you

[sparks]

Originally Posted by FR

The moment Madonna went from simply providing people in Malawi a means to raise impoverished children to directly intefering she crossed a very serious line.

could not agree with you more my friend just did not think her intent was racist.

Originally Posted by LMR

So if Madonna really wants to adopt, why didnt she adopt a child in America? Maybe she researched on this girl and fell in love with ehr and just wanted to protect her?

This is the real issue to me.

She goes to improvished countrys because its easier then trying to adopt a needy child here. Far less red tape except in this case she was called for it and lost up to this point.

[sindyloo]

Well first off Little Miss....there doesnt seem to be any kids in the orphanges in the US that need love or a Home? Or Madonna and that rich bitch Angelie would have got them from here.

Second a lot of African kids were taken from Africa and brought to the US a couple of centurys ago for "work" and to improve their lives as well!? Poor dears needed improvement and to be taught about God of course.

[pervipete]

Now now Sindy, don't be cynical

[Hailo]

Look at Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, they didnt travel to search for a child to adopt. I haven't the foggiest as to why people do travel to adopt.

Why didn't she go to Poland or Turkey to adopt? I am assuming that colour had something to do with adoption. Having a black child, maybe it would raise eyebrows and Madonna is known to enjoy shocking people.

[FuckingRotter]

Because people have forgotten what racism actually is. Racism is not using wires like "nigger" in a derogatory way, Paki bashing, or whatever. The Nazis were racists. America and South Africa implemented racist policies. Racism isn't hating someone for the colour of their skin, racism is the belief that your own race is superior and your values and culture should take precedent to the detriment of all others.

Does Madonna the racist begin to make sense now?

[pervipete]

This is going to should racist, I'm not, but so be it.

Ever since the Eighties, Africa is 'trendy' to help. It's poor, but so are lot's of countries.

Kids are dying in parts of the Far East, Near East and places like Bangledesh (I think that's the right spelling, sorry if it's wrong)

At least Brangelina are trying to help other places.

Has anyone seen the conditions in some of the poorer parts of the former Eastern Bloc, most notably Romanian orphanages. You don't see a great rush of celebs doing charity singles, and telephons for these children. You nether see Chris bloody Martin whining on do you. Why not?

One of two reasons, reverse racism, these are white kids therefore not as needy as coloured African children.

Or

Colonial guilt. Misplaced guilt because of somethin our forefathers done. Parts of Colonisation was terrible, but, some of these countries had more money pouring into them when they were part of the empire.

Lets get real.

Most African countries are corrupt dictatorships, a great deal of the aid given gets diverted in bribes to officials just to allow the charity to operate.

Look at Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of africa, now famine racked, just cause Mugabe wanted to buy votes and popularity.

If you want to hear sense about africa listen to Dr John Setamu, the Zimbabwean born Archbishop of York, who in an interview on BBC news24, told Africa to stop blaming Europeans for their woes and look to themselves.

[sparks]

Originally Posted by pervipete

This is going to should racist, I'm not, but so be it.

Ever since the Eighties, Africa is 'trendy' to help. It's poor, but so are lot's of countries.

Kids are dying in parts of the Far East, Near East and places like Bangledesh (I think that's the right spelling, sorry if it's wrong)

At least Brangelina are trying to help other places.

Has anyone seen the conditions in some of the poorer parts of the former Eastern Bloc, most notably Romanian orphanages. You don't see a great rush of celebs doing charity singles, and telephons for these children. You nether see Chris bloody Martin whining on do you. Why not?

One of two reasons, reverse racism, these are white kids therefore not as needy as coloured African children.

Or

Colonial guilt. Misplaced guilt because of somethin our forefathers done. Parts of Colonisation was terrible, but, some of these countries had more money pouring into them when they were part of the empire.

Lets get real.

Most African countries are corrupt dictatorships, a great deal of the aid given gets diverted in bribes to officials just to allow the charity to operate.

Look at Zimbabwe, once the bread basket of africa, now famine racked, just cause Mugabe wanted to buy votes and popularity.

If you want to hear sense about africa listen to Dr John Setamu, the Zimbabwean born Archbishop of York, who in an interview on BBC news24, told Africa to stop blaming Europeans for their woes and look to themselves.

pete let me send you one of those friend thingys or did I already ??

FR I am not going to argue with you my friend over this as its not worth it to me

your friendship is

Ill add one final note

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
— rac·ist \-sist also -shist\ noun or adjective

its that definition that sticks with me no where do we see ritch bitch wanting to do what sheek or the current trend

I stated that I think she is doing wrong and I agree with most of what you say I dont see it as racist but more as a rich b trying to circumvent legality and find the easy way to get a new toy

you do not need to reply to me I concede you are right and I am wrong you have your opinion and I have mine

I will read every word you have to say from hence forth but will not reply as I said I dont want a lost friend

peace

[Lucy.]

Sparks

I am certain that noone is going to dislike you if you disagree with them. You don't have to concede that they are right just to stay friends.

I see far too much of that on this forum. Having different opinions is what makes us unique as human beings and its a very good thing. We can often learn from others like this too.

For instance, I think in this case that if someone took me out of home when I was young and moved me to a different country, then I would go back as soon as I could. I feel like I probably would feel that I wouldn't fit in anywhere.

Newland though, said that he had a similar situation and he is fine and wouldn't change it. So while our views are different, I learn that maybe it wouldn't be as bad as I originally thought. I still keep my opinion, but this is what debating and talking these things over is all about.

You made valid points, there is no reason to apologise for them nite x

[pervipete]

Sparks mate you don't need to withdrawel, we are all adult enough to understand and respect other peoples opinions, and not take them personally.

I quite enjoy the debates, stops me boring people at work. It's only when it's patently run out of steam and people just go round and round making the same points, or the occasional bit of dummy spitting that I find boring.

To be honest I find them useful, it makes me think about why I believe something, is it just something I picked up along the way, or something more strongly held.

I'm not that conceited that I don't realise that my opinions are the only ones, so I write something, even a minor point, that you disagree with, then reply, I'll read your post with interest, even if like Lucy, it may not change my mind.

So Lucy you're a hot girl with a Welsh accent

[sparks]

Ok thanks for the comment Lucy and Pete

I see and understand this

Originally Posted by FR

Because people have forgotten what racism actually is. Racism is not using wires like "nigger" in a derogatory way, Paki bashing, or whatever. The Nazis were racists. America and South Africa implemented racist policies. Racism isn't hating someone for the colour of their skin, racism is the belief that your own race is superior and your values and culture should take precedent to the detriment of all others.

Does Madonna the racist begin to make sense now?

I'm a yank. So what your saying is if I'm a low class tobacco spitting trailer trash biker kinda guy (but white) and I am refused access to an upscale golf course country club run by the upscale high class white elite because of my income level and the backer spit drooling down my chin then I am a victim of Racism ??

To my way of thinking social injustice perhaps but not racism. Racism to Americans is mainly what you say it is not. Racial slurs, crimes against an other Race because of their ethnicity. I have never thought of the Nazi's as racist. They were supremists in that they picked on there own race (Jewish folk is white ain't they LOL) and there genocide was more religious persecution based as any race was a target if they were Jewish.

any thoughts ???

[doggystylethatgirl]

How about we all close our eyes & forget what color we are or aren't.

We bleed red blood
We all are humans
We all make mistakes

Peace to everybody

[ChiTownHoney]

Originally Posted by FuckingRotter

Because people have forgotten what racism actually is. Racism is not using wires like "nigger" in a derogatory way, Paki bashing, or whatever. The Nazis were racists. America and South Africa implemented racist policies. Racism isn't hating someone for the colour of their skin, racism is the belief that your own race is superior and your values and culture should take precedent to the detriment of all others.

Doesnt that go hand in hand though? Being descriminative against someone because of the color of their skin is racism, but that goes without saying. Believing that your own race is superior is also racism. I consider myself a racist and so doesnt everyone else. But thats because I dont trust certain people of a certain race because of their race. That is prejudice on my part, and for sure racism I think. I dont think that one race is better than the other, I just prefer not to associate myself with a particular race because most of them I had found untrustworthy.

[doggystylethatgirl]

don't look at the person because of color, but how he/she is as a person, then we all could maybe get along by our actions, not by our damn looks or color.
If we could all turn our skin inside out we all would look the same.

[Hailo]

Originally Posted by doggystylethatgirl

don't look at the person because of color, but how he/she is as a person, then we all could maybe get along by our actions, not by our damn looks or color.
If we could all turn our skin inside out we all would look the same.

Wise words Doggy

[pervipete]

Originally Posted by doggystylethatgirl

don't look at the person because of color, but how he/she is as a person, then we all could maybe get along by our actions, not by our damn looks or color.
If we could all turn our skin inside out we all would look the same.

so true, and so sad that too many people don't get this.

BTW can I add how impressed with how you starting to turn yourself around Doggy, be proud of yourself.

[doggystylethatgirl]

Originally Posted by pervipete

so true, and so sad that too many people don't get this.

BTW can I add how impressed with how you starting to turn yourself around Doggy, be proud of yourself.

I turned around

Oh, maybe thats why my head is spinning

[MARADONA]

Originally Posted by pervipete

I think that the whole way that we deal with Africa is completely fucked up.

We give them fish, when we should be teaching them how to catch fish.

I remember a few years ago watching a piece on the news channel about a man you tried an experiment intensive farming in one of the African countries (can't remember which) which worked, so he went to a couple of charities to fund further intensive farms, and he was turned down, because it 'interfeared' with their traditional way of life.

We don't need to take these kids out of their country, we need to train them to be doctors, farmers, engineers and anything eles to help their country. Then maybe we can allow them the dignity of living, not just existing as, for want of a better term, glorified welfare cases.

Don't think like you Pervi and i don't get why you talk in plural...to me we must respect their cultures without change their traditions...
this is because the Africa is the Africa, is not like the USA or the Italy...is another thing...but we can help'em...that's for sure.
This poor country is used by us in different ways...and this is not a mistery...since is something that is going on from years and years...
there are other countries were the people is used like slaves, everyday i heard critics about that, specially about the "sexual tourism".
Unfortunatelly who is in charge is not good, this is the main problem, we can become volunteers of course...
but in this way we will never change the actual system.

[pervipete]

The trouble is, a lot of this 'must maintain their culture' comes from white folks.

Most Africans I have met have come to the UK, and go to over western nations, to learn better, more upto date, methods of living.

Now I not saying, to do a Stalin and dump them on collective farms. Just show them more productive methods of farming so that they can maintain their dignity and feed their own families and people.

This has a precedent with medicine, and the inprovement of water and sanitation in these villages.

Upto a a couple of years ago Zimbabwean farms used moden methods, farmed by people who knew what they were doing, and they were the bread basket of African, now the farms have been given to people without the knowledge, skills and the desire to farn and look what you have. Crisis, famine, deaths on a massive scale.

So if we was to export these methods to other lands, even if there were just the more fertile parts of the continent, then maybe there could act as a food source for african nations that are going through the tragedy of drought.

We will never end the need for charity in Africa, but we can maybe make it so that African is in the position of helping African.