Damn Jehovah Witnesses and others (School is in session)

[TheOneSolo]

Why were they ringing my door bell at ten in the morning? I go outside and it's fucking freezing. It's so cold I can see my breath. They start reading scriptures to me, and as much of an asshole that I am, I couldn't just slam the door in their face, or tell them to fuck off, so I stand there in the cold listening to them read scriptures.

After they finish, they give me some reading materials and thank me for opening the door. This weeks Watchtower topic is "The Five Secrets of Contentment."

Well my five secrets of contentment are Gaggirl, Ali D, Perfectlyformed, Roxygirl and Sweetamaria90. All that other bullshit they can save.

In the past, I've dealt with Jehovah Witnesses, and as schooled and well read as they are in the Bible, they don't have nothing on my metaphysics, which has required me to read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, Upanishads, Tao Te Ching and whole bunch of other material which I don't care to list at this time.

There was one group of Jehovah Witnesses that I invited into my home to talk, and after about ten minutes, they asked me, why with all my knowledge, why don't I just have faith(though they was referring to faith in Christianity). My response to them was:

"I'm a black man, speaking a Indo-European language, reading a book that was originally written in Hebrew, while I stand on American Indian soil, and you think I'm not going to question that?"

They didn't really have a response to that. They just kept saying "you should have faith."

I had already told them, that I believe in God, but that wasn't enough. They wanted me to a member of their particular cult, or should I say group. That I was not going to do cause religion in itself, is what causes problems. Look at all the major wars in the world, they are all religious wars.

This is not to say that it doesn't have it place or uses. I just don't like when people try to brainwash others because of their ignorance. I've asked some of these Jehovah Witnesses who pride themselves on their knowledge of the Word, some basic questions, and only a small few could answer my questions. I'll list some of the questions I asked below.

Question: The word "God" was not around when the bible was written, so what word or words was used?

Answer: In the beginning of Genesis the name Adonai was used, and then it changed to Elohim, then there was Jah, Jehovah and the tetragrammatton YHWH (Yod, He, Waw, He).

Question: What is the name of the testament in between the old and new testament?

Answer: The Apocrypha.

Question: Where did the terms God and Devil come from and why were they used?

Answer: Those terms are the word good and evil personified. You take away the letter "o" in good and you get God. You add the letter "D" to evil and you get Devil. Back in the days, fear was used to control people, and it is hard to get people to fear words, so they personified them.

These are just some of the questions I've asked Jehovah Witnesses and other Christians, and most don't have a clue. Here is another powerful question I ask.

Question: Have you ever read the Bible cover to cover? If not why?

Most people are Christians for years and years and years. If you read one page a day, you'll finish the book in about three years. Even two pages every Sunday, it can be finished in five years. The reason I point this out is because when a person bounces from one page to another, it gets confusing. That is a non sequitur, which is latin for "it does not follow." Non sequitur's are used to make things confusing and keep people under control.

The other day I downloaded Battlestar Galactica, and when I watch it, I will watch the first episode of season one, to the last episode of the last season. Anything else wont work. If I watched the middle of the third eposide of season two, then went to end of the last episode of the first season, then bounce to the first ten minutes of the second episode of the last season, and kept doing that, I would be totally confused. If I did this for years, I would sound like a complete fool when trying to talk about the series. Well that is how these Jehovah Witnesses sound when they step to my door.

To make matters worse, they want me to join them and use my theosophical knowledge to manipulate people to be on their side. They have got to be kidding me.

My philosophy is simple. You are the center of your own universe, everything revolves around you. You don't need a middle man, a middle book, or middle organization. Each person can connect directly to their higher power.

For those who are atheist, you can take a purely scientific point of view and realize that every atom in the universe is connected by an elctro-magnetic force, which technically means everything is connected, and everything is one. Just as in your body, you have cells, that have their own intelligence, and function and life cycle. They are individual parts, that collectively make you up. Well everything in the universe is connected the same way. Since the only point of reference we have to our existence is our minds, even the atheist would have to believe that he/she is the center of his/her own universe, with everything revolving around them.

This thread was not meant to attack or offend anyone, I was just ranting, cause I got disturbed early in the morning. However, if you was offended, and feel like breaking your foot off in my ass, I posted this thread in the Rowdy Room, so you could do so without having to worry about consequences. All comments questions and flames are welcome.

[Sierra]

I normally do not get involved in religious discussions. I consider faith and spirituality to be intensely personal to each and not really open to discussion. Your beliefs are none of my business, but I have a deep respect for each person's relationship with their Higher Power.

Where I draw the line is when one person tries to forcefeed me their beliefs. Some will merely ask if I want to hear it and then politely drop the subject when I decline. I respect that and thank them for caring enough to share. But when someone comes to MY house or invades my personal space puts my back up. Then when a polite refusal is met with more pushing they will find that it can get very cold indeed on my doorstep.

Either that or my dog will get some exercise chasing them off.

[jwham]

Originally Posted by TheOneSolo

Post #1.

I agree that having someone knock on your door to preach their beliefs to you is bothersome, whiter they be Jehovah Witnesses, The Latter Day Saints, The Church of God down the street, or someone campaigning for some Politician, and I normally send them on their way.

As for my thoughts on the secret of contentment goes, I believe it is better to want what you have, than to have what you want, my Grandfather always said having enough makes you a rich man.

I do believe in a higher deity and I have read the Bible, but that was in my youth, so I am rusty on the scriptures, I have not read the Koran, the Bhagvad gita or Vedas, hell I can't even pronounce them, or the other religions that you have named that I have never even heard of, but then I am not a Metaphysics, and have no desire to understand how others view or understand the world, I stay pretty occupied earning a living.

I do however disagree that religion is the cause of all major wars in the world, what I do believe is that religion is as good of an excuse as any for those that hate anyone who does not think, or believe as they do, to war against them.

Your question and answer session was interesting and informative, for I did not know where the name "God" "Devil" etc etc came from, so I have learned something new today, and I thank you for that, I had however always assumed that God meant goodness and nothing good can come from the Devil.

I don't stop by this board as often as I use to, tonight I have read some of your postings and I find you to be an interesting and intelligent new RB member, this board could use two or three or a baker's dozen just like ya.

[TheOneSolo]

Originally Posted by Sierra

I normally do not get involved in religious discussions.

Well I guess I should thank you for your post since this is outside of the norm for you, and I wont comment further on your post except for your last sentence.

Originally Posted by Sierra

Either that or my dog will get some exercise chasing them off.

Translation: RELEASE THE KRAKEN!!!

Originally Posted by jwham

As for my thoughts on the secret of contentment goes, I believe it is better to want what you have, than to have what you want, my Grandfather always said having enough makes you a rich man.

That is pretty profound. I'm going to add that to my quote thread.

Originally Posted by jwham

I do believe in a higher deity and I have read the Bible, but that was in my youth, so I am rusty on the scriptures, I have not read the Koran, the Bhagvad gita or Vedas, hell I can't even pronounce them, or the other religions that you have named that I have never even heard of, but then I am not a Metaphysics, and have no desire to understand how others view or understand the world, I stay pretty occupied earning a living.

Bhagvad Gita, Vedas, and Upanishads are the Hindu spiritual texts.

Tao Te Ching is Taoism, which is a Chinese spiritual text.

Me sitting around contemplating my naval, definitely doesn't pay the bills, so I understand why you focus on that which is empirical and practical.

Originally Posted by jwham

I do however disagree that religion is the cause of all major wars in the world, what I do believe is that religion is as good of an excuse as any for those that hate anyone who does not think, or believe as they do, to war against them.

My opinion on the issue is that you had many different groups of people way back in the day, who were from different places, therefore, they spoke different languages. Since they spoke different languages, they had different names for their Higher Power, such as Allah, Jehovah, Brahman, Wu Chi, etc etc etc. When these various groups eventually met up, they automatically assumed that they were referring to something different, and they began to defend that which they believed, hence the believe what I believe or I'll kill you.

If you strip all the religions down, they all have things in common. I focus on that which is common, so I can communicate with a person, through that which they believe. One thing I've noticed that is common in many religions is the trinity. A lot of them have. Again, they use different words, however it can still be seen.

In metaphysics the first thing I learned was the concept of selfishness and selflessness. Selfishness is evil and selflessness is good. This is something that is pretty much standard in all beliefs. If you give from the heart without expecting anything in return, then you get back more then what you gave.

Not trying to change your opinion about religion and war, I'm just clarifying why I said what I said, without listing ever major war, and the religions of those various groups.

Originally Posted by jwham

Your question and answer session was interesting and informative, for I did not know where the name "God" "Devil" etc etc came from, so I have learned something new today, and I thank you for that, I had however always assumed that God meant goodness and nothing good can come from the Devil.

Your welcome.

Remember, some things might have more then one interpretation or meaning. If I ever post my poem on this forum, you'll be able to see what I mean very clearly, cause I wrote a poem where every few sentence's I put double or triple meanings on words forcing the mind to think about two or more things simultaneously.

Originally Posted by jwham

I don't stop by this board as often as I use to, tonight I have read some of your postings and I find you to be an interesting and intelligent new RB member, this board could use two or three or a baker's dozen just like ya.

Hahaha, thanks.

[jwham]

Originally Posted by TheOneSolo

My opinion on the issue is that you had many different groups of people way back in the day, who were from different places, therefore, they spoke different languages. Since they spoke different languages, they had different names for their Higher Power, such as Allah, Jehovah, Brahman, Wu Chi, etc etc etc. When these various groups eventually met up, they automatically assumed that they were referring to something different, and they began to defend that which they believed, hence the believe what I believe or I'll kill you.

If you strip all the religions down, they all have things in common. I focus on that which is common, so I can communicate with a person, through that which they believe. One thing I've noticed that is common in many religions is the trinity. A lot of them have. Again, they use different words, however it can still be seen.

In metaphysics the first thing I learned was the concept of selfishness and selflessness. Selfishness is evil and selflessness is good. This is something that is pretty much standard in all beliefs. If you give from the heart without expecting anything in return, then you get back more then what you gave.

Not trying to change your opinion about religion and war, I'm just clarifying why I said what I said, without listing ever major war, and the religions of those various groups.

I do not disagree, I think the secret to peace is for everyone to have the mindset to live and let live, or as Rodney King said "Can't we just all get along"

[TheOneSolo]

Yes, that would be an ideal way for all of us to live.

[Gothicjedi666]

I personal think that people should keep thier belifs at home and private. I have no problems with people going to church or writing holy books, but when the Church gets too big it starts to try and run things like countries that always leads to holy wars and buring of heratics.

If everyone is free to live thier lives in a way that doesn't hurt other people then the Church should be bannded because it does hurt people.

[lowkey]

Originally Posted by TheOneSolo

Post #1

I feel your pain, my friend. I regularly find myself opening the door to find a Witness or a Mormon waiting behind it to inform me how incorrect my existence is.

For a long time I would tell them that I was a Orthodox Luciferian Rebelionist and that I eagerly awaited the day the freedom loving forces exiled to Hell rise to overthrow the oppressive regime of God. Most caught the hint immediately and are polite enough to leave. Once I maintained this line of utter bullshit for nearly an hour and I am relatively certain I convinced the young man I was speaking to that there was a rather wide-spread organization that worshiped Lucifer as an incarnation of freedom and chaos.

They have gotten somewhat more polite in the area in recent years though and merely telling them you're not interested before they begin their pitch is enough to just get you a smile, a thank you for your time, and the sight of their back moving away.

Personally, I don't actually care what anyone believes, as long as they're not harming anyone or trying to restrict my choices in life based on their beliefs. I do think a step in the right direction for the world would be if people were all secularists first and believers second, but I disagree with Jedi in that I don't think religion is necessarily a harmful thing.

Fanaticism is what is harmful and you will find people who are just as dangerously devoted to secular creeds as religious ones. I don't deny that religion seems to have the tendency to produce more fanatics than most creeds or organizations, it is far from alone. If we did ban the Church, you would just as likely end up with people still burning each other, just over other things. We'd have a world where wars were waged over which soft drink, Coke or Pepsi, was best.

[TheOneSolo]

Originally Posted by mat2001uk

Do I get the whiff of Buddhism in there?

My personal philosophy has some Buddhist and Taoist principles in it.

Originally Posted by mat2001uk

My own personal religion of preference, but there you go.

M

Cool.

Originally Posted by mat2001uk

ps "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Solo again." Shame really, that was probably the single best rant I have read in a long time! Guess it actually helps to be sober when ranting

Thanks mate. As I said before it is the thought that counts. + rep

[Lorielle]

I also get many Jehovah Witnesses and others similar to them at my door on a regular basis. This is the one disadvantage of living in the Bible Belt. There are so many different denominations always trying to recruit so it happens frequently. I use to just ignore the door, but I felt guilty because in a sense I was being rude so I finally started speaking with them.

I'm very grounded in what I believe, and the chances of anyone being able to make me change my mind are slim to none. However, I don't mind hearing what someone has to say and speaking their mind, within reason. My biggest dislike is when someone shows up to my home and then tries to tell me how I'm wrong in what I believe, how I live, or that I should start doing something they think is right. I never press what I believe on others, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

[TheOneSolo]

Originally Posted by Lorielle

My biggest dislike is when someone shows up to my home and then tries to tell me how I'm wrong in what I believe, how I live, or that I should start doing something they think is right. I never press what I believe on others, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

Yeah, that is my qualm. People telling me that I should think or do something different, when for the most part, they don't even make any sense.

I once asked a devoted Christian about right and wrong, and they said wrong is better then being right as long as you believe in God (as they see him). For me that was the straw.

The exact question was: "Which person does God show my favor to, and who in your eyes is a better person. A person who beats his wife and kids, steals, does drugs and cheats on his wife, but they believe in God and go to church every Sunday and pay their tithes or a person who is an atheist, but they give to charity, live a clean life, and do right by their family?"

I've asked numerous Christians this question, and the majority said, the person who is a shit head and believes in God is better then the atheist who is doing the right thing by his family and the planet. That completely turned me off, due to it being completely illogical.

So when they come to my door and then want me to think and believe things along those lines, they are crazy, and there would be no way they could budge me in my beliefs. A person can come at me with science or parapsychology, but not garbage like, "it is better to believe in Me (God) then to be a good person.

[eapenetret]

I am rather conflicted about religion. First, I should say that I'm pretty much an atheist nowadays. I grew up in the Bible belt like Lorielle in a rather religious (christian-protestant) family. I have seen the two very good things about religion: the sense of community and its (mostly) charitable nature. I have also seen all the ugliness and to me the ugliness outweighs the good.

When one of these christian groups comes knocking on my door, I try to be polite, as I can't bring myself to hating the person at the door, but I do ask them to move on right away. I tend to get a little heated over it because of its intrusive nature, my religious beliefs are none of this stranger's business, but also because I believe that the reaction would be far more heated if the "shoe was on the other foot", i.e., if atheist, jewish or muslim (i.e. non-christian) groups did the same. I guarantee that it would cause a serious uproar.

As an example, my sister is a very devoted christian. Although she is always kind to me, it bothers her deeply that I am not raising my kids in the christian tradition. This has led to some uncomfortable Christmas vacations when my kids interact with her kids. Anyways, during one of these family visits, I took all the kids for a walk in the country behind my Mom's house. During this walk the kids talked about a lot of things and it was rather positive. Then, my niece (my sister's daughter, in maybe 5th or 6th grade at the time) told me how shocked she was that there was this new kid in her class at school who moved her from Africa that "did not believe in Jesus Christ". I didn't say anything at first, but she pressed and when she said to me "Uncle Mike, can you believe there is actually someone in the world who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ?" I tried to explain that actually a majority of the people on the planet believed in a religion that did not include Jesus Christ. Well, she was shocked and disgusted that I said that. She marched straight home and told her Mom what I said. Pretty much ruined the visit; no one would talk to me after that. Never asked me for an explanation (to this day). I was told that I should not be spreading my heathen ideas to her kids. Never mind that the fact that she routinely sends christian reading material to my kids without any discussion to me or that when they are around my kids with me gone, they preach to them.

Shit, I got off on a rant there. My main point was just that I really don't think any of these christian groups have an idea how intrusive this door-to-door preaching can be to someone that doesn't believe what they believe. And, they would probably never see the hypocrisy in their probable outrage if a muslim man knocked on their door...

[Lil-Mac]

We have all had these guys pester us at one time or another. Growing up in a small town in North Carolina we would get then by our house on a pretty regular basis. They used to leave a little flyer called The WatchTower. Anyone ever seen one of those? We used to save them and add them to the tender box for the fireplace. They were made from stiff paper, great for starting fires.

Anyway now I live in an area that doest allow door to door solicitation, but back in the day I used to take their little flyer, thank them for it. Then tell them I planned to burn it, smile, then close and lock the door.

[Beardy]

How about rape two (they always come up in pairs) young Jehovah witnesses girls one morning when they ring your bell?

[snarkopo]

I'm an Atheist. And if those guys showed up at my door I'de gladly tell 'em to go pound salt.
I try to be nice to the mormees but they get on my nerves as well.

[TheOneSolo]

Originally Posted by eapenetret

I am rather conflicted about religion. First, I should say that I'm pretty much an atheist nowadays. I grew up in the Bible belt like Lorielle in a rather religious (christian-protestant) family. I have seen the two very good things about religion: the sense of community and its (mostly) charitable nature. I have also seen all the ugliness and to me the ugliness outweighs the good.

When one of these christian groups comes knocking on my door, I try to be polite, as I can't bring myself to hating the person at the door, but I do ask them to move on right away. I tend to get a little heated over it because of its intrusive nature, my religious beliefs are none of this stranger's business, but also because I believe that the reaction would be far more heated if the "shoe was on the other foot", i.e., if atheist, jewish or muslim (i.e. non-christian) groups did the same. I guarantee that it would cause a serious uproar.

As an example, my sister is a very devoted christian. Although she is always kind to me, it bothers her deeply that I am not raising my kids in the christian tradition. This has led to some uncomfortable Christmas vacations when my kids interact with her kids. Anyways, during one of these family visits, I took all the kids for a walk in the country behind my Mom's house. During this walk the kids talked about a lot of things and it was rather positive. Then, my niece (my sister's daughter, in maybe 5th or 6th grade at the time) told me how shocked she was that there was this new kid in her class at school who moved her from Africa that "did not believe in Jesus Christ". I didn't say anything at first, but she pressed and when she said to me "Uncle Mike, can you believe there is actually someone in the world who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ?" I tried to explain that actually a majority of the people on the planet believed in a religion that did not include Jesus Christ. Well, she was shocked and disgusted that I said that. She marched straight home and told her Mom what I said. Pretty much ruined the visit; no one would talk to me after that. Never asked me for an explanation (to this day). I was told that I should not be spreading my heathen ideas to her kids. Never mind that the fact that she routinely sends christian reading material to my kids without any discussion to me or that when they are around my kids with me gone, they preach to them.

Shit, I got off on a rant there. My main point was just that I really don't think any of these christian groups have an idea how intrusive this door-to-door preaching can be to someone that doesn't believe what they believe. And, they would probably never see the hypocrisy in their probable outrage if a muslim man knocked on their door...

I was going to reply to this, but then I would have gone off on a rant.

Instead I'll say the Witnesses and the like of nowadays was the same one's who back in the day said "believe what I believe or die." The civilized version of it, still feels like the same crap to me.

Originally Posted by Lil-Mac

We have all had these guys pester us at one time or another. Growing up in a small town in North Carolina we would get then by our house on a pretty regular basis. They used to leave a little flyer called The WatchTower. Anyone ever seen one of those? We used to save them and add them to the tender box for the fireplace. They were made from stiff paper, great for starting fires.

Anyway now I live in an area that doest allow door to door solicitation, but back in the day I used to take their little flyer, thank them for it. Then tell them I planned to burn it, smile, then close and lock the door.

Great stuff, great stuff.

Originally Posted by Beardy

How about rape two (they always come up in pairs) young Jehovah witnesses girls one morning when they ring your bell?

Never thought about that. That would make for a nice fantasy or role play.

[Trixie_Grrl]

One thing for sure, my mother would still be alive right now if it wasn't for them Jehovah Witnesses brain-washing her not believing in blood transfusions. She had a bad heart condition and her doctor told her she needed a blood transfusion if she was going to get surgery done and she rejected it. She died at 47. Ever since, I don't welcome them in my home and I tell to get lost!

[TheOneSolo]

I'm sorry to hear about your mother Trixie.

When it comes to religions, people should be flexible when it comes to certain things. When it's a matter of life or death, sometimes it's okay to break the rules.

None of us are perfect, and some religions want you to follow a certain set of principles as if we are perfect. It is sad that in some cases, they want you to follow "their" way over scientific or medical advice.

I feel for you Trixie.

-TOS-

[RayPistonprowl]

Originally Posted by Trixie_Grrl

One thing for sure, my mother would still be alive right now if it wasn't for them Jehovah Witnesses brain-washing her not believing in blood transfusions. She had a bad heart condition and her doctor told her she needed a blood transfusion if she was going to get surgery done and she rejected it. She died at 47. Ever since, I don't welcome them in my home and I tell to get lost!

Damn, girl. Just damn.

[HRH1948]

Back in the day, a friend recanted this tale.

A pair of Jehovah Witnesses came to his door on a particularily boring and rare alcohol free day. He gave them friendly entrance and even served food and drink. Then, there was a desperately long pregnant pause. My friend asked what was next? The Jehovah Witnesses said that they weren't sure because they had never gotten that far before.

At least, that was the way I heard it.

With my utmost respect and a kindly non denominational prayers to all that respect everyone's right to believe as they wish. And, a hellish curse to all those that wish to destroy those that do not agree with their own particular belief system.

Been there and did that,

HRH1948