Responsibility of rape victims?

[pravjey]

Hi,

On the TV news last night, I saw the following news item about the responsibility of rape victims.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+blame/3542252

Being a liberal, I find it quite shocking that so many people still think that rape victims should somehow be held partly responsible.

As hot-blooded man, I do agree that women should perhaps be a bit more aware of how they dress. (Of course, this does not justify real rape.)

But as a rape fantasist, my imagination is already running riot with scenarios, where rape victims are held accountable alongside their rapist. How about an enforced marriage?

So, purely for the sake of fantasy, how would you like to see rape victims punished for "provoking" their attacker? (Or if you want to be the victim, what do you think is a fair punishment?)

[BTN]

I don't think women should take resposibillity for how they dress. Be as revelaing as you like, it still isn't acceptable for a guy to rape you. But I think they do need to stop building up the laws against guys in situations where women were drunk and woke up the next morning crying rape.

So now I have to ID check and breath test every girl I meet in a club before asking her if she wants to have sex? What next? written contracts of concent?

No more knee tremblers in alleys because if shes had a WKD or 2 too many then thats rape. If she sucked your cock or not.

On the subject of WDK blue. The makers of rohypnol put a dye into the pills so that they would change the colour of a drink when dropped into it. So now one of the most popular drinks (certainly in the UK) is BLUE!

Not making it easy are they?

So no, dress how you like ladies, you're allowed to dress how you like. But take resposibillity for the rest of your behaviour.

[pravjey]

Having seen the first reply to my post, I just wanted to clarify that I am not suggesting that women should be held responsible for being raped, whether it's because they dress revealingling or get too drunk or whatever. Rape is wrong is and is an offence of the rapist alone.

I just thought that the link to the news story might provoke our imaginations and our fantasies, which is why I assume we are all here. If, in some fantasy world, women were held partly responsible for being raped, what should the punishment be?

[prey4me]

BTN queries,

What next? written contracts of concent?

That actually occured in one place, the defunct Antioch College (Ohio). A bastion of irrationally extreme liberalism, it also embraced every tenet of a radical feminist agenda. So they actually issued blank "consent" forms for couples to sign before having sex. Talk about cold water on romance and spontaneity! (Small wonder Antioch is out of business, too.)

Should the victim's dress, behavior, and general cockteasing be a factor in determining the culpability of the rapist? Why not?

"The Defendant will please rise."
(I get up.)
"Mr. Pray4Me, you have been found guilty of Un-Premeditated Semi-Non-Consensual Quasi-Articulated Sexual Assault and Battery in the Second Degree, Under Mitigating Circumstances, in that the victim was dressed like a slut, quite willing to play with your dork and to lick it, and in general was behaving like a drunken floozy, and her enunciated protestations of non-consent were seriously slurred when she wasn't changing her mind back and forth....."

[cinahuhy]

Originally Posted by prey4me

BTN queries,



That actually occured in one place, the defunct Antioch College (Ohio). A bastion of irrationally extreme liberalism, it also embraced every tenet of a radical feminist agenda. So they actually issued blank "consent" forms for couples to sign before having sex. Talk about cold water on romance and spontaneity! (Small wonder Antioch is out of business, too.)

Should the victim's dress, behavior, and general cockteasing be a factor in determining the culpability of the rapist? Why not?

"The Defendant will please rise."
(I get up.)
"Mr. Pray4Me, you have been found guilty of Un-Premeditated Semi-Non-Consensual Quasi-Articulated Sexual Assault and Battery in the Second Degree, Under Mitigating Circumstances, in that the victim was dressed like a slut, quite willing to play with your dork and to lick it, and in general was behaving like a drunken floozy, and her enunciated protestations of non-consent were seriously slurred when she wasn't changing her mind back and forth....."

Ha! I like that last part there.

Not to totally highjack your thread into a completely different direction.....
I wish I could find the link to a news story I read some time back:
On trial was a man accused of rape. What started as consensual soon turned otherwise. The main sticking point was how long immediately was.

As in, how long after she said stop did you actually stop, and what time frame is acceptable. 30 Seconds, 10 seconds?
I never found out the verdict.

A punishment for the victim? I would say having to do it all over again willingly, but that just doesn't seem to fit the point of rape does it?

[ego]

Originally Posted by pravjey

Hi,

On the TV news last night, I saw the following news item about the responsibility of rape victims.

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+blame/3542252

Being a liberal, I find it quite shocking that so many people still think that rape victims should somehow be held partly responsible.

Reading the article, i noticed that people believe some rape victims should take responsibility.
Small word, great diference..

[pravjey]

Originally Posted by ego

Reading the article, i noticed that people believe some rape victims should take responsibility.
Small word, great diference..

stop being so bloody facetious and let ur imagination run wild. I would like 2 c the victim put naked in2 the stocks thereby leaving her mouth and ass exposed to any passinpg rapist

[ego]

You're right, i'm sorry. I just havent thought about raping an already raped woman!
The way you put it however...

[RapeKarenX]

Fuck the dressing. Men think drunk=consent.

[BTN]

Originally Posted by RapeKarenX

Fuck the dressing. Men think drunk=consent.

Hate to contradict you but not all guys do. But when you get girls who are SO drunk that they claim they can't remember what they were doing then guys get into deep shit when they wake up the next morning next to a guy they don't really fancy and cry rape.

Dress how you like and sod it, drink what you like. But just accept your decisions ladies!

[RapeKarenX]

Re Ladies: So drunk = not able to give consent.

Rape is rape. What if a woman gets drugged? Same as slamming back 20 shots at the guys insistence and peer pressure when not able to make judgments.

Flirting does not equal (do we have that sign on keyboards?) consent or asking for it.

[BTN]

Not saying different Karen.But the point I'm trying to get across is that there is a difference between rape and regret. Plus its been shown that alot of women that claim they have their drinks spiked and so on were just too drunk. A friend of mine (a former police officer) has told me that this is the case 90% of the time.

Alot (not all) of women to use "I was drunk/drugged" as an excuse or just to cover their own arses with friends/family/husbands etc.

Better to screw over a guy you bearly know and ruin his life than admit you did something slutty in some cases.

[somedude]

Here's a bizarre reality with how the law works in some places...
A man and a woman are drunk out of their minds and they meet at a club and end up heading home together and have sex with both of them completely intoxicated. The next day when they've both sobered up and realize what has happened the woman could charge the man with rape because being intoxicated means she was not able to give consent. On the other hand the man cannot use the fact he was intoxicated as a defense against the charges. I have literally read it where on the same page it is clearly stated that while being intoxicated beyond a certain point renders a woman incapable of giving legal consent that a man is responsible for his actions no matter how intoxicated he is.
Talk about double standards...

[pravjey]

Originally Posted by RapeKarenX

Re Ladies: So drunk = not able to give consent.

Rape is rape. What if a woman gets drugged? Same as slamming back 20 shots at the guys insistence and peer pressure when not able to make judgments.

Flirting does not equal (do we have that sign on keyboards?) consent or asking for it.

We all agree that rape is rape. I think most of us agree that, in reality, there are more nuanced ways to obtain sex without consent, such as drugging, pressuring the woman into getting drunk, etc.

At the same time, rightly or wrongly, there is a debate as to whether rape victims contribute to their situation because of how they dress or how they behave or how much they drink. One could argue, if one were that way inclined, that sometimes a rapist can be incited to rape. So, the question is:

IF THERE WERE a criminal offence of "incitment to rape", what should the punishment be?

For example, like the sex offenders register, there could be a rape inciters register. In a complete distortion of Megan's Law, whenever a "rape incitor" moves into a particular area, the police would have to warn the guys in that area, so that they can either take precautions.

[RapeKarenX]

Originally Posted by BTN

Not saying different Karen.But the point I'm trying to get across is that there is a difference between rape and regret.

If a woman gets too drunk and asks to go home or is too intoxicated, a gentleman would put her in a cab or take her home and make sure she's OK. That's the RIGHT thing to do. Just do the right thing and don't fuck someone impaired. That shows character.

It's too easy to get a drunk woman into bed because she doesn't have all her faculties together. If men were taught self-respect and respect of women and boundaries- this wouldn't be an issue.

If a man takes me home to make sure I'm OK, sleeps on the couch, makes me coffee- damn- if I was already attracted, I would be even more attracted to him for his respectful treatment. Maybe he can come crawl into bed after I have him watch me shower.

Men will be greatly rewarded for good behavior.

But if you are looking to just unload without caring about the woman, and she cannot say no because she blacked out then it's rape. There's no consideration of the other human being. There are many situations that people wake up, men and women, without knowing who they slept with and not know that person's name. That is just awful.

In a blackout one can still move and talk but not remember. Once ranted about Snoopy and acted super silly and never remembered. Friend took me home. Know i was treated with respect because that's the friends I choose to hang with.

[BTN]

I thought we were talking about the victims taking responsibillity? I for one have never taken advantage of a drunk girl (and FYI....it got me nowhere!) and I agree that guys that do arn't exactly studs or good examples of the male of the species.

However. In alot of cases its two people dancing that particular tango. What about the slightly loose 2AM girls who wake up with a guy who isn't as attarctive as they remember and go

"EEEEEEK!! RAPE!!"

The poor fucker who thought he was getting his end away with a girl who was up for it is now having a major panic attack....with a hangover no less.

Rape is wrong....no debate there.

But sometimes the word is used to save face

[RapeKarenX]

Originally Posted by BTN

I thought we were talking about the victims taking responsibillity? I for one have never taken advantage of a drunk girl (and FYI....it got me nowhere!) and I agree that guys that do arn't exactly studs or good examples of the male of the species.

However. In alot of cases its two people dancing that particular tango. What about the slightly loose 2AM girls who wake up with a guy who isn't as attarctive as they remember and go

"EEEEEEK!! RAPE!!"

The poor fucker who thought he was getting his end away with a girl who was up for it is now having a major panic attack....with a hangover no less.

Rape is wrong....no debate there.

But sometimes the word is used to save face

What woman wants to have public disclosure / intrusion / law enforcement repercussions for regretting who they slept with? Isn't that a bit outrageous? Rape is grossly under-reported already.

The woman's responsibility ends when she is too intoxicated to even speak without slurring/obviously intoxicated. We all share responsibility in doing the right thing. If I was in a situation to see a woman too drunk and men were obviously making advances without her brain being cognizant of the actions, I would step in and ask the lady where she lives and try to pull her out of the situation even if it's to get coffee or hydrate the "victim" with bottled water. Doing good when we see wrong is all of our responsibility. We do not want that happening to our sister, partner, mother, aunt, good friend.

Sorry if the level of responsibility does not suit all. If you were too drunk to drive, your friends and stranger would /should care enough to take your keys away, so why does a women/victim get less consideration?

[the savage]

Originally Posted by UnFetteredSoul

Ha! I like that last part there.

Not to totally highjack your thread into a completely different direction.....
I wish I could find the link to a news story I read some time back:
On trial was a man accused of rape. What started as consensual soon turned otherwise. The main sticking point was how long immediately was.

As in, how long after she said stop did you actually stop, and what time frame is acceptable. 30 Seconds, 10 seconds?
I never found out the verdict.

A punishment for the victim? I would say having to do it all over again willingly, but that just doesn't seem to fit the point of rape does it?

Being the helpful soul that I am, I will answer your query. The case you mention is taught in most law schools in the Criminal Law course (required). When a consensual encounter turns non-consensual, IE the woman says stop after you are inside her, the man has a non specific amount of time to overcome the "heat of passion". Varies depending on the situation. The man in that case was convicted because he didn't stop.

[Lil-Mac]

I have been reading these posts and really enjoying most of the comments. It's nice to see a good back and forth discussion. This idea about responsibility is a tricky one. According to our western tradition we are each responsible for our our own actions, for our own decisions and we must be willing to accept the consequencies that those actions and decisions produce.

If a man spikes a woman's drink, or secretly gives her more than she wanted(doubles for singles, whatever) thereby rendering her unable to make a sound decision or resist then clearly he is guilty of rape, no question.

By the same token if a woman goes out, parties hard, hit's on a guy and put's herself in a position where SHE makes a bad decision, is it still rape? Tricky question that. At what point do I become responsible for her. Did I buy her the drinks? Did I make her flirt and tease? Did she offer to take me home? Wasnt she the aggressor, didnt SHE pick me up?

~And ladies, before you rake me over the coals it happens this way alot, deny it if you want, but it does.~

Now if I were a gentleman(which I am) then I would decline such an offer(which I have, more than once at that). Even if I werent, is it "rape" to accept such an offer? What if I had been drinking and my judgement impaired, impaired enough that I couldnt tell how far gone she was? Am I guilty of rape by accepting an offer?

To draw a picture. Two women, friends, decide to go out and try to meet some guys. They both put on sexy evening dresses and heels, doll themselves up and hit the town. No problem so far, they have every right to do this.

One girl has a few drinks, dances a bit, chats with a guy or two, maybe even flirts a little. So far so good. Maybe she meets a guy she likes, maybe she doesnt. As the evening wears on she realizes she has had enough so she calls it night. Maybe she has a lucky boy in tow, maybe she gave out her number. Doesnt matter, she's calling the shots, she's in control, it's all good.

Her friend has been doing B52's and lemon drop shooters all night. She's the life of the party, dances with all the guys, flirting more and more aggressively as the night wears on. Finally she settles on a guy, and at closing time they leave together. Problem is, she is so drunk she wont remember picking him up, while the guy is maybe just drunk enough that he doesnt care. Next morning she wakes up, has NO idea how she got home, has NO idea who she brought home. All she knows is she is tired, sore, has a splitting headache and then notices the guy's seed leaking out of her. Next thing you know she hits the panic button, dials 911 and screams rape.

You tell me, which one of them just got fucked? Which one of their live's is ruined? Even if the guy beats the charge his life will never be the same. He is shamed in front of his family and they will always wonder... did he? Most of his so called friends will abandon him, maybe he'll keep one or two really close ones, but it still wont be the same. At work he has probably been fired, none of the female's want to be near him. If he hasnt been fired he may as well resign because his boss is just looking for a way to dump him.

And all this happens to him if he is LUCKY. If he isnt, well, then it's prison. God alone knows what will happen to him there.

It all really boils down to this. If I force myself on a woman, either thru my strength or gile, useing threats or blackmail, drugs or alcohol then I am a rapist. Plain and simple, deserving of whatever fate awaits me.

However if I am just standing in a bar or club knocking back a few and during the course of the evening I get hooked up with some girl that wants to take me home, she does NOT have the right to yell rape the next morning, I dont care how drunk she was.

[RapeKarenX]

So heels, flirting, and a teasing of going home = consent? What if she says if you're a good boy, you get to come home?