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Old 05-25-2017, 03:50 PM   #141
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I wonder if there is a chance at all that with time the sectarian parties may be replaced with traditional political parties. Not that it would do people much good of course....

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Originally Posted by tom8517 View Post
As the June election gets closer no major shake ups. Sinn Fein has a shot of taking Fermanagh/South Tyrone from the UUP to up their total to 5. Quite a few seats are foregone conclusions, 0 chance for a unionist in west Belfast, same for Sinn Fein in Antrim.

The interesting contests are between Sinn Fein and the SDLP and to a lesser extent DUP vs UUP. Personally, I've never had much use for the SDLP. They should drop the SD and own up to what they are, a pale green Irish extension of the British Labour party.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:01 PM   #142
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Curiously, the fractured, tribal nature of society in the north may actually have a positive effect in preventing a mass causality terrorist attack.

Given that neighborhoods are highly segregated and the deep mistrust of strangers might set off alarm bells sooner tHan might happen in a more open society.

I can't see even the more fringe elements of the dissident republicans having common cause with Isis.

And if, as some claim, the Provos are still around and they uncovered any thing, likely would be handled themselves rather than a call to the authorities. Probably the same for the UDA.
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:41 PM   #143
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I'm not suggesting a common cause between any faction and IS.

Your comments on segregation suggest a lack of understanding of the situation on mainland Britain. There are areas in some towns and cities that are almost no-go areas. Walking through Manningham in Bradford for example is like entering a foreign country. If that sort of situation arises in Northern Ireland, or in Dublin or larger towns and cities in the south for that matter, there aren't going to be any Prods or Taigs around to scrutinise.

Honestly, it is like a creeping disease, but the PC brigade forbid us from saying so. As I have already stated, the attack in Manchester this week, the killers friends knew where he was off to and posted all over Facebook. Yet our government is criticising Donald Trump for leaking information to the press!

Despite Enniskillen, and a few other incidences, at least the IRA did have some grip on who they were fighting, these fuckers have no grip at all. I don't think the Provis are really equipped to take them on, because they are not quite like any one we have seen before.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:02 AM   #144
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I'll have to admit that you were right on my not knowing how bad things had gotten in the mainland of the UK. I knew there were whole areas in France that the government had virtually lost control off, I didn't realize it had gotten that bad in Britain as well.

The republic has a substantial and growing Muslim population. They seem to be assimilating a bit more than in Britain and the rest of Europe, but the trend of high concentrations in small areas is present there as well. There are areas west of Dublin that have become Muslim enclaves.

Ireland has escaped Islamic terror attacks to date, three possible reasons: 1) Irelands non aligned status, 2) it had never been a colonial power, 3) luck, the Jihadists simply haven't got around to Ireland yet.

the north has a relatively small muslim population, 4 to 5 thousand, primarily centered in Belfast. they are already bitching about ethnic intimidation from some of the loyalist gangs. Not that the republicans would be above this as well, just didn't see any reports of it. My earlier comment about the Provos and the UDA handling the situation was made tongue in cheek, but that would be a very bizarre partnership indeed.

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Old 05-26-2017, 04:49 AM   #145
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No more bizarre than the Rev and the Guinness being best mates.
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Old 05-26-2017, 05:23 PM   #146
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Well, following on from the Manchester bombing, which had links with the rebels in Libya that got rid of Ghaddafi, I've just seen an interview on Sky Television News with an Irish (ginger hair and every thing) jihadist that has fought both in Libya and Syria, and now lives in Tripoli, that has links with Abedis family.

Only a matter of time....
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Old 05-27-2017, 09:29 PM   #147
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Ireland is on the verge of electing an openly gay Taoiseach. Muslims won't care for that. And from Fine Gael no less ( irish tories, sort of). He is also Dublin born, son a immigrants.Irish society has come a very long way in a very short time.

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Old 05-29-2017, 07:45 AM   #148
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I suspect it is simply keeping pace with Western society in general. The United Kingdom parliament isn't exactly brimming with openly gay members. There is even a suggestion that Tim Farron, Lib Dem leader, is all but openly homophobic. Still, good to see our fellow Britons not being left behind in a fog of medieval thinking. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition in 2017. Not even Stephen Fry.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:31 AM   #149
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Well, the Unionist paramilitaries seem to be following the same path as the Nationalists. Without an enemy to fight, they seem to have taken to killing each other.
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Old 05-29-2017, 10:30 AM   #150
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Haven't they been feuding among themselves for years already?
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Old 05-29-2017, 01:24 PM   #151
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Yes, UDA and UVF feuds have been going on for years. The Republicans had some as well, mainly between the officials and the Provos after the split
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:07 PM   #152
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There is usually an element of sarcasm involved whenever I write about how dedicated to their religion the prods and taigs are. Sectarianism was seldom more than a protection racket.
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Old 05-29-2017, 09:54 PM   #153
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Of of the great myths of the troubles was that it was a religious war. It was simply a coincidence that the people on either side hapen to be Protestants and Catholics. There were exceptions, Ian Paisley for one for a while was more worried about an elderly Italian than the IRA.

The only time most IRA volunteers spent inside a Catholic Church was inside a pine box covered with a tri colour.

Martin McGuinnes was unique in that he actually was a devout Catholic, he also never touched alcohol. Maybe that's why he and Paisley hit it off.

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Old 05-30-2017, 07:36 AM   #154
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I think you'll find that The Rev was actually worried about an elderly Pole in the end. Or was it an elderly German? Or even an Argentinian? I get confused some times. He was certainly worried about an elderly cross dresser! I wonder how he felt about Mohammed?

It seems that we agree that whatever the merits of the Unionist and Seperatist causes, their methods were pretty fucking despicable.
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Old 05-30-2017, 02:12 PM   #155
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As I posted earlier, it was a vicious little war. Plenty of atrocities to go around on all three sides, if you can count the security forces and the loyalist gangs as separate. The UDR in particular were more or less the UDA in a Government issued uniform.

Whether or not one agrees with the goals, there is a difference in a guerilla war where armed soldiers and police were the targets as opposed to deliberately going after civilians. The IRA had the technical expertise to inflict mass civilian causality attacks on a scale that could have rivalled 9/11, they chose not to. That doesn't make them heroes, it was a pragmatic decision because they realized that such attacks would be met with revulsion by the nationalists of the north, and even more so by their supporters in the US. At Enniskilen in particular both the IRA and Sinn Fein saw major drop offs in support that they didn't recover for a very long time.

The bombing campaign was always riskier than gun attacks precisely because it was so much harder to limit civilian causalities. Its a problem that even modern conventional forces face. If the US air force, or the RAF for that,matter bombs ISIS, there is always a chance that innocent civilians will be killed.

Before I get any howls of outrage I'm not equating the US or the British actions against ISIS with the IRA bombing campaign.

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Old 05-30-2017, 02:36 PM   #156
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I'm looking forward to seeing how Sinn Fein will react when the British government finally gets around to suspending civil rights for the Islamist fifth column in our society. We are at present spending £250 000 a year to "treat" one of the killers of Lee Rigby. That, for want of a better expression, is fucking mental.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:21 PM   #157
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I'm a little suprised that hasn't happened already. The British government wasn't shy about doing it in Ireland. Internment without charge or trial, the special criminal courts, the SAS turned loose with shoot on sight orders...
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:20 PM   #158
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I was (again) being sarcastic. The British government has long since handed control over to cheese eating surrender monkeys.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:24 PM   #159
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I think you'll get far more outrage from your own left.There is a significant part of Sinn Féin that would consider protesting what happens on the UK mainland meddling in the domestic affairs of a foreign government.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:55 PM   #160
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Actually I think some of extraordinary security response is necessary and justified. As bad as Manchester was, the next could be far worse. While you and I can debate whether Britain belongs in the north, the British government certainly needs to be able to govern their own cities. Having no go areas in south Armagh and the bogside is one thing, having them in Birmingham and Manchester is something else.
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