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Old 11-10-2010, 10:36 PM   #1
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Default Sharia Law

Tonight I was listening to a radio news show and the comentator was talking about a speech made by the Arch Bishop of Canterbury (not sure when this was) concerning Sharia Law in the UK. The ABoC was saying that Muslims in Great Britian were already practicing Sharia to such a vast degree that the British Judiciary should establish official Sharia courts. In essence an official, alternate legal system for Muslims in the UK.


The commentator went on to descibe how there are 87 unofficial Shiria courts already operating in the open throughout the UK and that special financial laws had already been passed by Parliment to accommodate Muslims.

To say the least I was shocked by this. I just cant understand why after all that the British people have gone thru, how they have fought and struggled tooth and nail for over 1000 years to secure the rights they enjoy, why in the world would they allow what amounts to a what is a shadow judiciary system to exsist in their country.

Now I know many of you live in the UK so before I get too bothered by this let me ask:

First, is the report accurate. Did the ABoC really say this?

Second, is it true about these Sharia courts operating in the UK?

If these courts are operating, are their decisions binding? What happens if a non-muslim Brits gets called before one of these courts.

To me this whole thing is absolutely mind blowing so I have got to know.

Is this true? And if so... WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS THINKING??
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Old 11-10-2010, 11:26 PM   #2
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I read the other day that they (the Brits) decided to make the decisions of these Sharia courts legal. WTF? Is all I can say.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:02 AM   #3
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How long will it be before we see a woman stoned to death in Trafalgar Square or a beheading outside Parliament.
Enoch Powell must be spinning in his grave.

No wonder I hate political fucking correctness.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:07 AM   #4
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It's not just the Brits. A report on the news the other night explained how the mighty U. S. of A. was paying the Taliban not to attack American convoys. WTF. PAYING THE TALIBAN!

It's like the Brits paying the Kreigsmarine U-Boats not to sink their ships. What a fucking world we're living in.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:07 AM   #5
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Political correctness is what is fraking the world up as far as I am concerned. How about I travel to a muslim country and kiss my girlfriend in a public place. See what happens then?

You live in a county. You abide by its laws. Regardless of the name of your god.

I'm not saying our system is perfect. I'm not saying theirs is either. But what has to be regognised is the fact that these are the laws and values that we live with and in other countries they live by.

No Muslim courts thanks. They live here in the UK? Not a problem with that. They want to claim benifits? Sure ok. They want to ignore our laws in favour of their own? Nah, sorry. That feldercarb don't fly
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by batffink View Post
It's not just the Brits. A report on the news the other night explained how the mighty U. S. of A. was paying the Taliban not to attack American convoys. WTF. PAYING THE TALIBAN!

It's like the Brits paying the Kreigsmarine U-Boats not to sink their ships. What a fucking world we're living in.

Not to dispute or disbelieve you but that sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. If a story like that ever broke in the US and had any truth to it I can assure you there would be hell to pay for those that put a scheme like that together.

So before I can accept that as fact I'd need to see the source and verify it for myself. Noit saying it cant be true, lord knows anything is possible, just that it seems very unlikely to me.

Now if you had said the Afgan government were paying them to not attack their troops, that I could believe.
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Old 11-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #7
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There have been allegations that international contractors, hired by the United States to build roads etc, in Afghanistan, are paying Taliban insurgents not to attack them. The Defense Criminal Investigative Service, an office within the Pentagon's Office of the Inspector General are investigating the allegations. So no, the report that "The mighty US of A" is paying the Taliban not to attack American convoys is not true.

For months, reports have abounded that the Afghan mercenaries who escort American and other NATO convoys through the badlands have been bribing Taliban insurgents to let them pass. No creditable News organization has reported that the US Government is paying the Taliban for anything.

Sadly the story concerning Sharia Law in the UK seems to be true.WTF?
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:21 PM   #8
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Ummm just as an a-side you might want to look into the history of the taliban.
And Al-Qaeda....You may just learn that the U.S.A have in fact been funding them for a long time.

As for the Sharia Law i think the end goal is to adopt parts of it into U.K. law.
which sounds odd but might work depending on what parts they pick.
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Old 11-11-2010, 02:03 PM   #9
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Ummm just as an a-side you might want to look into the history of the taliban.
And Al-Qaeda....You may just learn that the U.S.A have in fact been funding them for a long time.
I repeat No CREDITABLE News organization has reported that the US Government is paying the Taliban for anything, any US dollars falling into Taliban hands is via INTERNATIONAL contractors, hired by the United States to build roads etc, or Afghan mercenaries who escort American and other NATO convoys through the badlands.


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Originally Posted by daddy4adaughter View Post
As for the Sharia Law i think the end goal is to adopt parts of it into U.K. law.
which sounds odd but might work depending on what parts they pick.
You're kidding right?
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Old 11-11-2010, 03:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by daddy4adaughter View Post
Ummm just as an a-side you might want to look into the history of the taliban.
And Al-Qaeda....You may just learn that the U.S.A have in fact been funding them for a long time.

As for the Sharia Law i think the end goal is to adopt parts of it into U.K. law.
which sounds odd but might work depending on what parts they pick.
Your comment is loosely based on fact, though perhabs a bit distorted.

While it is true, common knowledge even, that the US Government did supply and fund the Muhajadeen of which Al-Qaeda was a part the US Government has never funded or supported the Taliban.

Niether is there any hard evidence that Bin Laden and his group ever recieved any direct aid from the US. Back during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan Bin Laden was mostly involved in getting financial aid sent from his homeland and he formed Al-Qaeda to aid in that task. It wasnt until later that it became a militant arm in it's own right.

I'm not saying Al-Qaeda members didnt fight, just that that wasnt their main focus. Their focus was on finance, logistics and on securing support from rich factions/nations within the arab world.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:19 AM   #11
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You live in a county. You abide by its laws. Regardless of the name of your god.





In Oklahoma they passed a law that prohibits judges from considering sharia law when deciding cases. It was blocked by the federal courts. That case involves inheritance laws which are laid down in the Quaran which ran counter to state law. I firmly believe that a person - no matter who they are - should be allowed to dispose their property as they see fit. However, what is good for Muslims is good for Catholics and Baptists and Atheists - no specific group should have its own laws or exceptions to laws.

There is a new dog in the Oklahoma fight - the Native American tribes. They feel that the Oklahoma law is a threat to their tribal courts because they consider themselves sovereign nations. That is a whole other discussion.

And the fight goes on.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:42 AM   #12
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In Oklahoma they passed a law that prohibits judges from considering sharia law when deciding cases. It was blocked by the federal courts. That case involves inheritance laws which are laid down in the Quaran which ran counter to state law. I firmly believe that a person - no matter who they are - should be allowed to dispose their property as they see fit. However, what is good for Muslims is good for Catholics and Baptists and Atheists - no specific group should have its own laws or exceptions to laws.
Very well said, I agree.
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Old 11-12-2010, 11:18 PM   #13
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For your consideration

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-binding.html
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Old 11-13-2010, 12:58 AM   #14
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In Oklahoma they passed a law that prohibits judges from considering sharia law when deciding cases. It was blocked by the federal courts. That case involves inheritance laws which are laid down in the Quaran which ran counter to state law. I firmly believe that a person - no matter who they are - should be allowed to dispose their property as they see fit. However, what is good for Muslims is good for Catholics and Baptists and Atheists - no specific group should have its own laws or exceptions to laws.

There is a new dog in the Oklahoma fight - the Native American tribes. They feel that the Oklahoma law is a threat to their tribal courts because they consider themselves sovereign nations. That is a whole other discussion.

And the fight goes on.
The reason that law was struck down by the courts was because it mentioned just Sharia Law. By only banning Sharia it could be interpeted as sying that other religious law, such as Rabinic Law, is ok.

Had the crafters of that law banned the use of ANY RELIGIOUS LAW then it would have had a better chance of standing up to legal scrutiny.

As far as tribal law is concerned most native peoples are considered "sovereign" by the Federal Government but it is an odd kind of sovereignty. I am not an expert on Native American Law but it is my understanding the Tribal Law supercedes State Law, but only on the reservation.

Tribal Law however does not trump Federal Law, that way the tribes can not pass any sort of law that would bar the federal government from having jurisdiction over the reservations.

None of these cases are anything like what is happening in Great Britian. There the Muslims have set themselves apart from the rest of socioty. The have established their own courts and jurisdictions that operate completely outside of British law, and in their minds supercede British Law. What is going to happen the first time there is a public stoning or beheading, or even a shoplifter having his hands removed. Under Sharia a liar can have his lips removed. I am not saying that these more extreme verdicts are going to happen anytime soon. But at some point, somewhere in the UK it will.

If this takes hold in Europe, especially in Britian which is the country most like the US then how long before it starts to happen here? In fact I would bet that it already is happening here, just not out in the open like in the UK.
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:01 AM   #15
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There's nothing new in this. The story itself was a couple of years ago, at the time The Sun newspaper ran the headline "Bash The Bishop". I'll leave it to my old mucker McBatfink to explain that to our American cousins.

More importantly, the forming of secret shadow societies and courts/governments is nothing new. It's happened for millenia all over the world. Whenever a section of a society or civilisation comes together to resist perceived injustice or persecution. Masonic lodges and trade unionism have their roots in this, as do some organised crime gangs such as The Mafia and Triads - both originally formed as mutual aid societies to resist tyrannical governments.

Sometimes these societies are crushed by the stronger tyranny, or they disappear as their need disappears - such as resistance to Nazi Germany during WWII. They can become absorbed into larger society such as Hezbollah in Lebanon. Although they still chuck the odd missile over the border in to Israel, their main function now is to provide health and social care to veterans of Lebanons civil war. Only the Shia muslim ones of course.

Other stronger shadow societies actually become part of the establishment, trade unionism is a prime example. When this happens one can begin to question the validity of their continued existence. Trade unions no longer serves its membership, but its self interest and the hierarchy of the union itself. Many outside of trade unions perceive them as at best corrupt, at worst (like myself) as a legitimised protection and extortion racket. No better than a Mafioso I suppose.

There are benefits to setting up of Sharia courts in Britain. European law, as much as I despise it myself, guarantees certain "rights". If a dispute can be settled outside of court it saves on tax spending. So long as no British laws are broken in the process that has to be a good thing surely? Look upon it as arbitration rather than a legally binding judgement.

So if two of the three Pakistani families that form a triangle around mine and Mr Singhs houses next door want to go to their local Imam rather than using the county courts to settle a dispute, that is fine. So long as they don't try to intefere with myself and Mr Singh spit roasting a hog in his back garden and having a few beers together during Ramadam, it really is none of my business.

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Old 11-13-2010, 06:15 AM   #16
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"Bashing the Bishop" I presume means the same as "Flogging the Bishop" refers to masturbating one's self ie. wanking.

And may I say how eminently satisfying it is to see my alter ego FR back on the board.

One little pebble dropped in the pond certainly creates ripples and controversy doesn't it.
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:03 AM   #17
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Interesting.

In my opinion, church and state should be separate here and abroad.

If like FR said if their laws don't affect us, then if the laws such as that get passed, then I guess its okay. However, if their laws would effect me, then I am totally against this. I already have enough people creating laws telling me what I can and can not do, I don't need anymore.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:31 PM   #18
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There's nothing new in this. The story itself was a couple of years ago, at the time The Sun newspaper ran the headline "Bash The Bishop". I'll leave it to my old mucker McBatfink to explain that to our American cousins.

More importantly, the forming of secret shadow societies and courts/governments is nothing new. It's happened for millenia all over the world. Whenever a section of a society or civilisation comes together to resist perceived injustice or persecution. Masonic lodges and trade unionism have their roots in this, as do some organised crime gangs such as The Mafia and Triads - both originally formed as mutual aid societies to resist tyrannical governments.

Sometimes these societies are crushed by the stronger tyranny, or they disappear as their need disappears - such as resistance to Nazi Germany during WWII. They can become absorbed into larger society such as Hezbollah in Lebanon. Although they still chuck the odd missile over the border in to Israel, their main function now is to provide health and social care to veterans of Lebanons civil war. Only the Shia muslim ones of course.

Other stronger shadow societies actually become part of the establishment, trade unionism is a prime example. When this happens one can begin to question the validity of their continued existence. Trade unions no longer serves its membership, but its self interest and the hierarchy of the union itself. Many outside of trade unions perceive them as at best corrupt, at worst (like myself) as a legitimised protection and extortion racket. No better than a Mafioso I suppose.

There are benefits to setting up of Sharia courts in Britain. European law, as much as I despise it myself, guarantees certain "rights". If a dispute can be settled outside of court it saves on tax spending. So long as no British laws are broken in the process that has to be a good thing surely? Look upon it as arbitration rather than a legally binding judgement.

So if two of the three Pakistani families that form a triangle around mine and Mr Singhs houses next door want to go to their local Imam rather than using the county courts to settle a dispute, that is fine. So long as they don't try to intefere with myself and Mr Singh spit roasting a hog in his back garden and having a few beers together during Ramadam, it really is none of my business.

FR I respect your opinion and based on the way you explain it that would be fine as long as all people involved agreed, but the information we are getting is that these courts are now starting to act on criminal cases, not just simple, minor disputes between neighbors. That is the issue.

If these courts are allowed to expand beyond the point where they are just simple neighborhood aribtrators then you are setting yourselves up for huge problems down the road. And as an intelligent guy, you know just as well as I do that when given the chance any group will always try to expand it's reach. Add that fact to the radical Islamic movement in the UK and there is real danger.
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:03 AM   #19
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Actually not bad for a drunken rant. Jolly good I'de say!
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